Rugby (the religion of Wales) and its influence on the Catholic church: should Pope Benedict XVI be worried?
BMJ 2008; 337 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.a2768 (Published 18 December 2008) Cite this as: BMJ 2008;337:a2768All rapid responses
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Egyptian Coptic Pope. Shenouda the 3rd. A pope dies .. not the pope. That's A .. A pope dies. try it again figuring in the full statistics .. March 2012
Competing interests: Egyptian Coptic Pope. Shenouda the 3rd.
Well done Ireland on Saturday and commiserations to the Welsh.
It looks like Pope Benedict can breathe easily until next year. Any
data on Lions tour results and papal health?
Competing interests:
A Roman Catholic and an Englishman
Competing interests: No competing interests
Wales lost to France last night - so does that mean there is no God
? Or that Catholic France has favoured status ?? Or that non-conformism
is a heresy ???
It was simply that the best team on the night won the game.
Chwarae teg.
Competing interests:
I live in heaven ( sorry, Wales )
Competing interests: No competing interests
We would very much like to thank those who took the time to write to
the journal, or to us personally, regarding our article1 on the link
between Welsh rugby success and the mortality of popes. In this, the week
before the 2009 Six Nations Championship kicks off, we make a brief
rejoinder to the discussion.
A (reasonable) question was raised about the economic justification
for our 'freakish
research'. We would like to reassure all concerned that the study incurred
no cost to the tax payer, though the overwhelming response from the
world's media in the fortnight following the press release proved somewhat
disruptive to our usual work. This said, we also believe that frivolity
ought not to be confined to times of prosperity, especially around
Christmas, so we make no apology for indulging in a final round of light-
hearted banter.
We are most grateful to Gerry Waldron who, with a deft wit, pointed
out our historical errors. In the same spirit, we would like to suggest
that our correspondents united against contact sports may be guilty of a
similar lack of attention to historical detail. Surely both elation and
injury have always been inextricably bound up in such pursuits?
Originally, just two rules divided rugby from association football. The
first persists: the question of handling the ball. The other, defunct in
today's 'blood-thirsty' game, allowed that "any player on the opposite
side shall be at liberty to charge, hold, trip or hack [the ball carrier],
or to wrest the ball from him, but no player shall be held and hacked at
the same time".
Several discussants made more theological points: Is Welsh the
language of heaven? Is Welsh rugby truly a religion? Good questions both,
to which we add our own enquiries: What if the Pope was Welsh? Do popes
fear death (Philippians 1:21)? Are popes closet Welsh rugby fans?
Two responses alluded to the interesting case of John Paul II.
Indeed, to our knowledge, he is the only genuine connection between our
events of interest. For Brock Cambourne is quite correct in his belief
that Karol Józef Wojtyla played international rugby (he appeared as a
substitute for Poland against Italy). Perhaps his knowledge of the game
makes him a statistical outlier, and explains some of the many interesting
coincidences mentioned by Paul Keeley?
The final word, though, must go to Walter Gianni, Paola Gazzaniga,
Stefano Zuccaro and Giuseppe Luzi. Surely the advice of scientific
research has never so quickly reached the ears of its intended audience
(the Vatican medical team)! We agree that our article might conceivably
have a negative effect on the Pope's mental health, and so would like to
emphasise that our only serious aim was to demonstrate the need for the
application of common sense when reading epidemiological papers. We also
have it on good authority that in Rome they are much more worried about
the Pope when it snows, leading perhaps to the adage "white hills, black
smoke." We thank Gianni et al. for their beguiling suggestion that our
results only truly demonstrate the scarcity of Welsh victories!
1. Gareth C Payne, Rebecca E Payne, and Daniel M Farewell Rugby (the
religion of Wales ) and its influence on the Catholic church: should Pope
Benedict XVI be worried? BMJ 2008; 337: a2768
Competing interests:
None declared
Competing interests: No competing interests
I recall reading somewhere that Pope John Paul II actually played 5/8
for Poland during his university days!
Competing interests:
None declared
Competing interests: No competing interests
Dear Editor,
I agree wholeheartedly with the writer of "Beware of Contact Sports".
Ever since sports became professional, money spinning activity, they
changed into blood thirsty gladiator-type endeavours. They stopped being
elegant and courteous participation.
Competing interests:
None declared
Competing interests: No competing interests
Contact sports (such as boxing, hockey, rugby, and American football) are
parodies of manhood, and atavistic, anachronistic, sadomasochistic, barbaric
bacchanalia, which create the euphoria of victory, machismo, and fun, and the
sickness of injury, disability, and pain. The euphoria of victory, machismo, and
fun, and the sickness of injury, disability, and pain, are polar opposites, which
reinforce each other: the euphoria blinds you to the sickness; and the sickness
makes you crave the euphoria. Ironically, contact sports create and aggravate
the very sickness they seem to cure.
Competing interests:
None declared
Competing interests: No competing interests
In reply to Payne GC, BMJ 2008;337:a2768
Dear Editor,
We congratulate Payne et al for the funny idea and the Journal
which sought to publish the results of a statistical correlation between
papal deaths and Wales rugby performances.
Nevertheless, from our point of view of being:
1) roman medical doctors, one of us working in the Vatican Medical
Team ( Zuccaro S ndr ).
2) Devout Catholics,
we feel a little bit worried for the consequences of such
“advertisment” on the Pope’s mental health.
Thus we ask to BMJ to accept few suggestions, as follows:
1) crociates against Welsh rugby
2) to engage a good psychotherapist in the Vatican medical team to support our
Pope
3) to buy all the copies of Payne’s article, so to avoid that Benedict
XVI may read it.
4) Ask the Pope to pray a little bit harder for England, Scotland, Ireland
rugby teams and a little bit softly for Wales.
Anyway, we feel much more worried for Wales rugby team than for
Pope’s health, which is really in good hands.
In fact in our country when we say “everytime a Pope dies” we mean
“something so rare that it never happens”.
So our interpretation of Payne’s article is that Wales rugby team should
improve its performances and try to win more frequently!
Best regards
Walter Gianni M.D. PhD Geriatric Unit INRCA IRCCS Rome
Paola Gazzaniga, M.D., PhD “ Sapienza” University of Rome
Stefano Zuccaro MD Geriatric Unit Ospedale Israelitico Rome and Vatican
Medical Team
Giuseppe Luzi MD, PhD “ Sapienza” University of Rome
Competing interests:
None declared
Competing interests: No competing interests
Given the current economy crisis, I wonder if any tax money was spent
to let the authors accomplish such freakish research.
Competing interests:
None declared
Competing interests: No competing interests
Re: Rugby (the religion of Wales) and its influence on the Catholic church: should Pope Benedict XVI be worried?
Following the recent grand slam victory by the Welsh Rugby team it is possible that the conclusions of this article are misleading and based on false assumptions. The authors have correctly stated the null hypothesis based on the saying “every time Wales win the rugby grand slam, a Pope dies, except for 1978 when Wales were really good, and two Popes died.” However they have only included Roman Catholic Popes in the outcome measures thus altering the statistical analysis to create a potentially false reassurance.
This year saw the death of the Coptic Pope, Shenouda III , on the very day that Wales won the grand slam. He was pope for 41 years and succeeded Cyril VI, who died in 1971, in the same month that Wales won the grand slam again. Coptic Popes are the heads of the ancient See of Alexandria and directly follow on from Mark the evangelist, thus having a legitimate claim to the title. Since the researchers sought to test the possibillity that there was a link between Welsh grand slam rugby victories and the death of a Pope it is crucial that this new information be brought to the attention of your readership. The relationship between these deaths and the sporting events may not be fully understood, however I believe that the original research has created a false reassurance and may be putting the lives of other Popes at risk.
Competing interests: No competing interests