Are national qualifying examinations a fair way to rank medical students? No
BMJ 2008; 337 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.a1279 (Published 22 August 2008) Cite this as: BMJ 2008;337:a1279All rapid responses
Rapid responses are electronic comments to the editor. They enable our users to debate issues raised in articles published on bmj.com. A rapid response is first posted online. If you need the URL (web address) of an individual response, simply click on the response headline and copy the URL from the browser window. A proportion of responses will, after editing, be published online and in the print journal as letters, which are indexed in PubMed. Rapid responses are not indexed in PubMed and they are not journal articles. The BMJ reserves the right to remove responses which are being wilfully misrepresented as published articles or when it is brought to our attention that a response spreads misinformation.
From March 2022, the word limit for rapid responses will be 600 words not including references and author details. We will no longer post responses that exceed this limit.
The word limit for letters selected from posted responses remains 300 words.
As a retired consultant neurosurgeon who first opened a science book
of any sort at the start of the 1st M B course at St.Thomas'Hospital in
1958 (A level subjects Latin & Roman History, French & English) I
wholeheartedly endorse Dr.Cave's views.
Moreover it was also mentioned at my pre-acceptance interview that my
position on the rugby field was not irrelevant!
Michael Briggs
Consultant Neurosurgeon (ret)
Wootton, Oxfordshire OX20 1ES
Competing interests:
None declared
Competing interests: No competing interests
While a national examination would appeal to those wishing to ensure
that the core components of the medial education have been understood and
achieved by every medial student, irrespective of medical school, the
introduction of such a system would merely make students “learn the exam”.
The sole concern would be on ensuring that the syllabus for the exam was
learned at the expense of taking advantage of clinical experiences as and
when they occur. Students would try and limit their time on the wards as
they would prioritise work towards the exam. In addition, surely medical
students are already burdened with enough assessment, both before and
during their time at medical school.
Students fear exams and those from lower economic backgrounds already
feel they are battling against all odds to succeed. The exam would
undermine diversity in medical schools and all efforts to widen access to
medical schools.
The exit exam could prove to be the straw that breaks the camels
back. The foundation programme application system and it’s predecessor
MTAS has undergone change beyond sense in recent times. Students and
junior doctors are becoming disillusioned by the uncertainty in medical
education and training. Surely stability is what is called for now. I
believe that face to face interviews will allow consultants to assess a
potential doctors capabilities far more that any examination.
Are those advocating a national exit exam suggesting that the current
assessment system is not up to the standard required to accurately reflect
ability and achievement? If so, then they are also making an indirect
accusation that the vigorous GMC monitoring and inspection system of
medical schools is not up to the mark. Their visits ensure that students
are being taught and assessed in an appropriate manner.
The quoted study suggesting that post graduate examinations show that
certain medical schools perform better overlooks the fact that students
move after qualifying! Surely post graduate examination analysis should
look at what hospital you work at to reflect their postgraduate training
standards?
I also fear that a ranking system based on academic scores may also
jeopardise the career prospects of those who are excellent practical,
clinical based doctors but may not be as good at passing the exams. I have
heard several clinicians comment that some of the best doctors they know
actually were modest performers at best during their medical school years.
Competing interests:
Past BMA MSC Deputy Chairperson
Competing interests: No competing interests
My son is currently thinking of studying medicine. We have been
interested by
the range of responses we have received from different universities
regarding A
level choices. Whilst Kings College London is enthusiastic about an Ethics
and
Philosophy A Level, Birmingham would not even recognise it.
Medicine is an enormous church. A national exam would lead to a
national
curriculum which would lead to political interference.
Let's maintain the beautiful diversity we have in our medical schools and
perhaps remember it is not your final exams that determine how good a
doctor
you become
Competing interests:
None declared
Competing interests: No competing interests
This is a difficult issue which has been a long way down the medical
education agenda for decades. The fact that it is now much more topical is
entirely due to the current system of appointing to F1 posts. This ranks
students in quartiles and is based on the assumption that quartiles at one
medical school are equivalent to those in any other. What eveidence there
is, much of it from the work of Chris McManus at UCL, suggests that this
is very far from true.We therefore have a national recruitment system but
one not based on a truly national assessment, a typically British fudge.
Ian Noble in fact acknowledges this with the fashionable "diversity"
argument, which naturally applies just as much to post-graduate exams if
we accept it: should we abolish these since they do not take into account
the great diversity of experience of the candidates?As the accompanying
article points out there are certainly problems with any national test but
it seems rather odd to argue against it on the grounds that it would be
less fair than the mess we have at the moment.Of course as the academic
component of applications is further down-graded perhaps we should just
encourage our students to do creative writing courses rather than
bothering about dreary stuff like diagnosis and treatment.
Competing interests:
None declared
Competing interests: No competing interests
Competition is a mixed blessing. It can motivate us to improve our
performance, but it can also dominate us with fears of inadequacy. The best
way to deal with competition is to compete with ourselves, but not with other
people. Try to focus on achieving your goals and improving your abilities, but
don’t worry about how you compare with other people. Learn to accept yourself
and appreciate your unique humanity, regardless of whether you achieve your
goals.
Competing interests:
None declared
Competing interests: No competing interests
While I remain unconvinced of the benefit of a national exam, I would
argue that the viewpoint of this article is too idealistic for the current
climate of selection processes within the medical career ladder. While I
agree that a system should be proven to be “fair, valid and reliable”
prior to use to distinguish between trainees, this is not the story of
MTAS (as was discussed by Parashkev Nachev, BMJ 2007;335:615 doi:
10.1136/bmj.39342.515961.59 ). As a profession, working with a clear
evidence base is now our comfort zone. So, who wants to volunteer for a
RCT of whether a national exam works or not to decide their future? Fiona
Patterson was involved in the development of the MTAS, (BMJ 2007;335:802
(20 October), doi:10.1136/bmj.39360.727535.59) and in her article last
year described the difficulties of the multi-niche aspect of the all-
encompassing career that is ‘medicine’ when it comes to applying one
standard application procedure. Surely this then also applies to the
concept of a national exam. While there is certainly a benchmark
requirement for foundation doctor skills and knowledge base, if the
individual medical schools cannot be trusted to deliver this then it
undermines the system and I agree that focus could be in danger of
changing from producing doctors with a well-rounded medical education to
producing clones that can pass the national exam.
Competing interests:
None declared
Competing interests: No competing interests
I don't agree that there should be a national exam. Medical schools
are very good at assessing thier students and are better placed to see
problems early and intervene before trouble sets in. Some brilliant
doctors are very bad at exams but wonderful with patients. Most students
wish to stay around their area of qualification at least for the frst
year. Again their owm medical school is best placed to match them to an
appropriate job in the area. Medicine is about personalities working
together and with patients. Trust the medical schools-they do a fantastic
job and goodness knows medical students are in enough debt by the end of
the course without getting them to pay what is bound to be a huge exam fee
for some national test. Maybe we need to go back to the old system of
using CV's to assess candidates rather than the daft ananymous forms which
do not let you distinguish between anyone!
Competing interests:
None declared
Competing interests: No competing interests
Medical schools need to be left to set their own qualifying
examinations. There is no evidence that any one school is failing.
Qualification in basic degree level is just the start of a long learning
process and there is no reason to alter the process which seems to work very
well. In fact if we look at other attempts at centralisation - what a
shambles MMC is. Nobody responsible will admit it but it has wasted vast
sums of the country's money on a process that has done no good, much harm
and driven many UK qualified doctors abroad. Our rulers both in medicine
and the government need to heed "If it ain't broke don't fix it". I would
rather the money went to correcting and hopefully abolishing MMC.
Competing interests:
None declared
Competing interests: No competing interests
Re:Not joined-up thinking
It is shocking that a national examination for undergraduate finals
does not exist, especially in the era of a nationalized Foundation
Programme application. The discrepancy in the syllabi of medical schools
(e.g. between Oxford and East Anglia) is shockingly vast, and having read
through various syllabi, I can only agree wholeheartedly with the hoardes
of consultants, professors, and lecturers who are dismayed at this
educational failure: we need a standardized examination.
Michael Schachter has made a wonderfully astute, albeit tongue-in-
cheek, final comment about the undergraduate syllabus being dumbed down.
Medicine is fast becoming a social science, where scientific knowledge is
being trumped by the ability to hug trees and talk to tables. Diagnosis
is going to take a new meaning in this century!
Competing interests: No competing interests