Effects of remote, retroactive intercessory prayer on outcomes in patients with bloodstream infection: randomised controlled trial
BMJ 2001; 323 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.323.7327.1450 (Published 22 December 2001) Cite this as: BMJ 2001;323:1450
All rapid responses
Editors:
I am a Saturday morning surfer with a Ph.D. in Economics who manages
risk on a large portfolio of small business loans. As such, I build
statistical models every day, using them to make bets that materially
affect my and my family's well-being.
My prior belief, having read the literature on scientific evidence
for paranormal effects, is that prayer could work, including
retroactively. However, the method and results of this study were not
satisfying.
First, the p values were indeed weak (I routinely require p<.001
in models I'm betting on). Second, a replication would have been
convincing--not on the same patient group with a different outcome, which
contradicts any reasonable hypothesis of the underlying physics, but with
another group of patients, outcomes, and prayers.
I encourage BMJ to continue to publish well-constructed studies of
paranormal healing "effects" or synchronicities.
Elliott Middleton, Ph.D.
Competing interests:
None declared
Competing interests: No competing interests
I note two things about Riccardo Baschetti's response.
1. He makes the logical leap that because 93% of scientists do not
believe in God, divine intervention is highly improbable and humankind
should rely on reason. This is a non sequiteur.
2. He has a clear religious (or anti-religious) position, which
except for its polarity appears not to differ from the religious positions
he criticises in terms of personal emotional commitment leading to
intellectual conclusions.
Competing interests:
None declared
Competing interests: No competing interests
I wonder if any particular God or gods are more effective when
involved in intercessory prayer than others. Since it seems possible to
pray retroactively, might it be be a good idea to include gods that people
used to worship, though almost nobody believes in any more, such as Greek,
Norse gods etc.?
Has anyone tested an obvious control test of praying to 'the
invisible purple unicorn' or similar known-to-be imaginary being ?
Presumably it would be necessary to compare this against prayer to a
living person (not a god).
What format did the prayer take ? Shouldn't a group have short non-
prayers be said for them (e.g. reading from the back of a packet of
cornflakes). I like the line - "There was no sham intervention.".
To be honest if I thought I was in a hospital where people were
praying for me, I'd want to get out of there pretty quickly too, so I'm
not suprised at the outcome !
(I have had a look at the other papers published in that issue of BMJ
and have taken the requisite dose of salt).
Jo
Competing interest : member of the National Secular Society, UK
Competing interests: No competing interests
A possible scenario for an experiment on retroactive prayer:
Al and Bob decide to do a research project on retroactive prayers.
They gather 1000 case histories of stays in the hospital a few years
ago.
They randomly divide the case histories into two groups of 500. One
group will receive prayer and the other won't.
Al takes the two lists back to his computer to do statistics on the
case histories that have already been entered into the computer.
Bob takes the list of patients to be prayed for to meet with the
people who will be doing the prayers.
Al has a fast computer. Before Bob can even convene his meeting, Al
tells him not to bother since he already has the results.
This has to be wrong. If an experiment was published in the British
Journal of Medicine, it could not have been along the above lines.
Competing interests: No competing interests
The purpose of the BMJ piece was to ask the reader the following
question: Given a 'study' that looks methodologically correct, but tests
something that is completely out of our frame (or model) of the physical
world (e.g., retroactive intervention or badly distilled water for asthma)
would you believe in it?
There are three ways to deal with this question:
1. To answer in the affirmative. But this leads to such paradoxes (some
described by the responders to this article) that it is incompatible with
our scientific work, or even with our daily life.
2. To look for methodological or statistical faults. Here an obvious one
was that the duration of fever and the duration of hospital stay are
related. But what if the next 'study' will sport perfect methodology and
statistics?
3. To deny from the beginning that empirical methods can be applied to
questions that are completely outside our scientific model of the physical
world. Or in a more formal way, if the pre-trial probability is
infinitesimally low, the results of the trial will not really change it,
and the trial should not be performed. This is what, to my mind, turns the
BMJ piece into a 'non-study' although the details provided in the
publication (randomization done only once, statement of a wish, analysis,
etc.) are correct.
The article has nothing to do with religion. I believe that prayer is a
real comfort and help to a believer. I do not believe it should be tested
in controlled trials.
Competing interests: No competing interests
I won't extend much beyond the many comments already published in
BMJ.
I used to teach statistics to medical students and faculty when I was
on the faculty of the Medical College of Georgia. I really had to pound
it into their heads that even at p<_0.05 you="you" are="are" going="going" to="to" be="be" wrong="wrong" _5="_5" out="out" of="of" _100="_100" times.="times." p="p"/> There is a rule of thumb (I think it could be formalized if anyone
wants to make the effort)that I (think I) made up: In a dichotomous
randomization trial, your main results
must exceed the delta (i.e. measured change, or differences) obtained from
a nonselected naturally dichotomous variable in the raw data or
subpopulation.
When I looked at the data presented in tables 1, and 2 of Leonard
Leibovici’s paper on prayer in BMJ, I see that his randomization yielded a
sex ratio and some locus of infection differences with distribution
spreads equal to or larger than his principle results.
So, applying my "rule of thumb," to conclude that Leibovici’s prayer
result is "good" we are also forced to conclude that the "focus of
prayer," by implication God, is particularly focused on male urinary tract
infections. I doubt that this is the case. Rather, I believe that male
urinary tract infections are perhaps easier to treat resulting in lower
mortality, and shorter hospital stays. Or even more likely, the
experiment proves nothing at all. Even the hospital stay data are weak on
other grounds.
Competing interests: No competing interests
The wealth of responses you have had to Prof Leibovici's paper
suggests that not everyone regards it as a hoax. There is therefore some
justification for looking at the study more closely.
It is an essential feature of randomised trials that they can be
replicated. For prospective studies this involves a further set of
subjects; but in a retrospective study of a retroactive effect there is no
reason not to replicate the study by randomising the population again and
repeating the prayers by either the same or a different person. If the
results were consistent on a number of occasions this would enhance their
credibility.
However, it is not necessary to put Prof Leibovici to the trouble of
repeating the experiment because a little further thought shows that it
cannot give a meaningful result.
If a population of 3393 subjects is randomised into two groups on n
occasions, the probability (p) of any subject being placed in only one of
the groups is (0.5)^n; and the probability that the subject falls into
both groups is therefore (1-p). The probability that all 3393 subjects
fall into both groups is (1-p)^3393 and the probability that any one
subject does not fall into both groups (q) is 1-(1-p)^3393.
For n=20 q= .00323 or 1/310
For n=30 q= .0000031 or 1/323,237
For n=40 q falls below the limits of my calculator!
Thus, quite modest numbers of repeat randomisations show that no
meaningful result is possible because all subjects occur in both groups.
If this were not to be the case, then the randomisation is faulty and the
study fails on that account.
A retrospective randomised study simply cannot answer the question
that Prof Leibovici is posing. This says nothing, one way or the other,
about the efficacy of prayer.
Competing interests: No competing interests
That there is God and He listens is a wonderful concept to not only
embrace but to experience. For those who would question the sequence
presented by the numerical date, take note that while rain falls on an
arena, but only those who chose shelter stay dry. The participants in this
study were non-participants in the sense that they did not play a role
decisively in prayer outcome. The "significant" outcome differences may
God has a mind of His own on whom He will assist and those whom He elects
not to assist. In old testament history, God's intervention to rescue
individuals was select also...suggesting further that as God, He acts
according to His plan in time and space, for an outcome past finding out.
That God hears our prayers then intervenes in favorable significance for
some, while others are permitted to travers the crisis is beyond a finite
conclusive experience.
Competing interests: No competing interests
When I look at Leibovici's article, it seems obvious that the 2
treatments showed no statistically significant difference in mortality
rate, as he stated.
But when I look at the data in Table 2, it is not at all obvious how
"Duration of fever" produced a statistically significant difference
between treatments. In every measure the 2 groups showed very similar
results.
Even with "Stay in the Hospital" the only category that showed much
difference was "Maximum". Does this category refer to the longest stay in
the hospital experienced by at least one person in the group? If so, how
does this produce a statistically significant difference?
Regardless of any other problem people have cited with this paper, I
would sure appreciate a better explanation of the statistics. If these
are wrong, then the whole study is wrong.
Competing interests: No competing interests
Re: Religion and Science
I find it sad that your contributor should be so unimpressed by
Science as to refer to it as "dead-end materialism", or "molecularised
view". There is nothing dead-end about the wonders that science continues
to reveal to us on an almost daily basis, especially when compared with
the, by contrast completely non-prgressive religious view, whose whole
methodolgy is backward-looking.
Molecules carry within themselves, and their constituent atoms and sub-
atomic particles and forces, the ultimate secrets of Nature, which by
definition must be the most fascinating concepts imaginable, and with
which prayers and incantations left over from a bye-gone age cannot
compare.
Competing interests:
Atheist Medical Doctor
Competing interests: No competing interests