Rapid Responses to:
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Rapid Responses: Rapid Responses published:
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![[Read Rapid Response]](/icons/misc/sectionDOWN.gif)
You are not alone.
- David M Comer (22 July 2006)
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Do not despair
- Anthony Papagiannis (25 July 2006)
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The other aspect of 'call for papers'
- Amit Kumar (25 July 2006)
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Problem solved
- Niamh E Lynch (25 July 2006)
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Go for non-scientific papers
- Arun Natarajan (26 July 2006)
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Scholarly publications as works of art
- Niyi awofeso (26 July 2006)
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Timing is Everything
- Laurence J Hulatt (26 July 2006)
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Does being published make you a better doctor?
- David Jordan (26 July 2006)
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Try Minerva
- Eoin P O'Sullivan, Una O'Colmain (26 July 2006)
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Life-Long habit !?
- Haidar Al-hakim (28 July 2006)
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'Publish or perish'?
- Iftikhar A Fazal (28 July 2006)
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Stepping stones to the Holy Grail of publication
- Rajkumar Rajendram (29 July 2006)
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A success story, Publications are not difficult
- Hari Muppala (31 July 2006)
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Citation errors in neurology - paper needed
- Phillip J. Colquitt (1 August 2006)
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Publish and Progress
- Thomas Kallachil (1 August 2006)
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Pondering about publications
- INDIRA S VINJAMURI (4 August 2006)
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Audit, case report or research?
- George Millington, George W.M. Millington (6 August 2006)
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It takes courage
- Christos Zavos (6 August 2006)
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Triviality
- Mariam H Akhtar (6 August 2006)
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Publishing Culture – Detrimental Consequences?
- Rahul Potluri (9 August 2006)
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Re: Triviality
- Rahul Potluri (9 August 2006)
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Publication requires background reading, timing and luck.
- Hala Abbas (25 August 2006)
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David M Comer, Senior House Officer Craigavon Area Hospital Group Trust, Craigavon, N Ireland, BT63 5QQ
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As a medical senior house officer I can very much relate to your woes. I too have been down that familiar lane of closed doors regarding establishing a publication. I wish to give you a word on consolation - you are not alone. Over the last number of years I too have been tormented with an unexpressed zest to establish my name in print. The awkward feeling one experiences when posed the question: "So have you got anything published yet?" is experienced by many. Don't give up. You are armed with an ability to command express yourself vividly in your personal view "Call for papers" which will stand you in good stead when your ticket arrives. Without question there is an element of luck involved, but it was Gary Player who so elegantly put it "The more I practice, the luckier I get". Reference: 1. Williams, GS. "Call for papers". BMJ 2006;333:207(22 July). Competing interests: None declared |
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Anthony Papagiannis, Respiratory physician St Luke's Hospital, Thessaloniki, Greece
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Having been through all the feelings described by Gwyn Williams, I then put them in a paper which eventually (after a few rejections) got published in BMJ Careers (Papagiannis A. Publication: from rejection to rejoicing. BMJ Careers 2005; 331: 253). My personal experience suggests that any decently written article will find its niche in print, sooner or sometimes much later. Nihil desperandum, as the ancient Romans would put it. Competing interests: None declared |
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Amit Kumar, Clinical Research Fellow, Anaesthetics WN1 2NN
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Dear Editor I read with interest the article ‘call for papers’ in the latest issue of your journal. I think this amusing presentation of personal view of a surgical senior house officer would be felt by many of the other trainees as his or her own experience. However, there is one thing more important, which we do need to remember in our pursuit to publish something. Published case studies, audits or researches are the foundations of sharing knowledge within medical community. We must do our level best to get the articles like case reports, audits or researches, published if it is worth contributing in our knowledge and information. If we consider publications just as a means of getting ahead in the career or attaining higher trainee job then I think when we would reach at higher posts we would tend to ignore potentially useful and important case reports or experiences at our work places. Therefore, this should be our mindset throughout the career that primary aim of available medical journals is to contribute in our knowledge and information by publishing worthy articles sent by us and we should remain vigilant about any important piece of information, like case reports, always in our career, not just when we need to attain higher trainee position. Nevertheless, I would like to congratulate the author for getting something published finally. Competing interests: None declared |
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Niamh E Lynch, Neurology Fellow Vancouver V6P 1T4
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In writing about your frustrations you seem to inadvertently solved the problem. For now, when you are asked the dreaded 'Any publications yet?' question you can answer 'Yes, in the BMJ actually'. Competing interests: None declared |
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Arun Natarajan, DRWF Clinical Research Fellow Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne
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Consider publishing non-scientific, general articles - you may well hit pay dirt. Several journals including the BMJ, publish a plethora of article types. Reading such articles, helps to inculcate academic and creative writing skills and also to envision ideas for papers. And such papers do not need ethical approval, funding and other riffraff, to be produced. A certain case report proved to be my nemesis and took me four years to publish, but in the meantime, I have managed to publish more than one paper on general and educational topics. And the author of this paper too, has finally ingrained his name in the hallowed pages of a journal with a similar kind of paper, after facing several disappointments. Competing interests: None declared |
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Niyi awofeso, Associate Professor School of Public Health and Community medicine, University of New South Wales, Sydney 2052, Australi
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Doctors that are wary about the relevance of publications to their professional advancement and/or contribution emphasize the inordinate amount of time ‘wasted’ in analyzing data or conducting clinical experiments that end up being rejected by medical journals. There is also the issue of impact of the published studies in the ‘real world – 63% of the Institute of Scientific Information’s indexed journals have impact factors below or equal to one, meaning that in these the average paper is cited less than once in the two years after publication.1 However, academic medical publishing is a cornerstone of medical progress, highlighting practices that work and which may be replicated by fellow health workers. Imagine the lives, time and knowledge that would have been lost if Joseph Lister had not published his work on how the spraying on carbolic acid on surgical instruments helped to reduce wound sepsis and cut surgical mortality by 15% in Glasgow in 1860.2 An important challenge for the modernization of medical careers is to enthuse medical practitioners to regard academic publishing as an intrinsically rewarding component of their careers, rather than as a duty that must be undertaken in order to rise on the training ladder. One way to do this is to start early, and encourage medical students to undertake research programs as part of their medical training. At the Obafemi Awolowo University Medical School (Nigeria) – where I trained – all pre- clinical students were required to undertake a session of basic or applied research as part of a B.SC health Sciences degree program. The BMJ adopts an artistic allegory in its publication processes, as authors whose manuscripts have progressed to the “mini-hanging committee” and “hanging committee” stages can attest. As with all works of art, not all scholarly research would end up as publications in the gallery of public opinion. Nevertheless, it should be consoling to authors that at least they attempted to make a contribution to new knowledge, and that they learned from their peers with regards to why what they regarded as “gems of medical wisdom” were indeed not nearly as priceless. References 1) Bleic DD. Monograph use at an academic health sciences library: the first three years of shelf life. Bull Med Lib Assoc 2000; 88:145-51. 2) Asimov, I.. Asimov's Biographical Encyclopedia of Science and Technology: The Living Stores of More than 1000 Great Scientists from the Age of Greece to the Space Age Chronologically Arranged. Garden City, NJ: Doubleday, 1964 Competing interests: None declared |
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Laurence J Hulatt, Anaesthetic SHO Cheltenham General Hospital, Sandford Road, Cheltenham, GL50 2DT
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Firstly may I congratulate Dr Williams on his succinct summary of the importance of publications in securing SpR training numbers – and the frustrations associated with pursuing this goal. Timing of submission is an important but under-rated factor in securing publication. Changing scientific views or even current events / media attention may turn a rejected article into flavour of the month; or, of course, someone else may get there first. Indeed during a lull in a busy on-call yesterday I penned the following response to Dr Williams’ Article: “May I congratulate Dr Williams on his excellent article. I hope that he enjoys his next appraisal and relishes saying, ‘Well I have had an article published – in the BMJ no less’. With a bit of luck I may now be able to say that I have had a letter published!” However on checking the website today I find that I have been beaten to it! Competing interests: Publication may improve my chances of gaining an SpR training number. |
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David Jordan, Community Pharmacist Dublin
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Does the fact that you have an article published make you a better doctor/clinician/surgeon etc? While congradulating G. Williams on publication will the review panel even notice that the article was not of a clinical nature. It would seem that what can be measured counts although not everything which counts can be measured. Competing interests: None declared |
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Eoin P O'Sullivan, Consultant Ophthalmologist Mayday University Hospital, Croydon, Surrey CR7 7YE, Una O'Colmain
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We, too, have been interested in getting published, so we investigated where we might get something published. As we had the impression that Minerva frequently published pictures from our speciality, ophthalmology, we reviewed which specialities had the most pictures published in Minerva in 2005. We discovered that the speciality that had most photographs published by a long way was dermatology with 16. Ophthalmology was in fact the second most successful speciality but a long way behind with 6. So our advice is that if Dr Williams wants a photograph published in Minerva he should team up with a dermatologist. Competing interests: None declared |
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Haidar Al-hakim, lecturer in ophthalmology Iraq
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Your article touched a lot painful memories when i was a trainee in the UK. Not being in an academic unit makes it even harder to get anything published, they seem to have the knack of knowing what gets published and what doesn't. Publishing papers and articles is very important worldwide, particularly in the non-developed countries as your credentials as a clinician rests on how many papers you have published. Submitting to international jounrnals as a alternative to the 'usual suspects' can help you get the articles published. Considering research and publishing as a life-long habit, like continuous medical education may just make it a little less painful, and i hope more meaningful. Competing interests: None declared |
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Iftikhar A Fazal, Clinical Fellow Cardiology Queen's Medical Centre, Nottingham NG7 5JH
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In publishing this interesting, amusing and thought provoking article Gwyn Williams has entered the former category rather than the latter. Congratulations! Getting published and having research seem to play an overriding role in shortlisting for specialty national training numbers. Why should this be the case? Faced with so many applications and with ever increasing competition for posts selectors need to be able to separate out individuals from the masses. Clinical skills, motivation, initiative, communication, empathy and practical skills can be difficult to assess from a curriculum vitae. The odd line about a publication speaks for itself and, some may argue demonstrate some of the qualities mentioned. Phrases such as 'publish or perish' have been mooted. Unfortunately, this has a led to a culture of publishing for publications sake. This is not necessarily conducive to medical advancement and simply ensures that journals are inundated with requests to publish case reports and hundreds if not thousands of junior doctors face rejection after rejection. Perhaps one of the few redeeming features of 'Modernising Medical Careers' is the supposed reduction on the emphasis on research. However, i am sceptical about the proposed competency based, nationally standardised application procedures and guidelines. Who knows what hoops we will then have to jump through? Competing interests: None declared |
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Rajkumar Rajendram, SHO Anaesthesia Horton General Hospital, Banbury, Oxon OX16 9AL
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Dear Editor, I would like to congratulate Dr Williams for cleverly solving his publication problem. However, his article and the subsequent correspondence paints a very negative picture for those who are considering following in his footsteps. To avoid the frustration described by Dr Williams I recommend trying to present your material as many times as possible before attempting publication of a paper. Use departmental or regional meetings to obtain constructive feedback and ideas for further development. Some national meetings also accept audits and case reports and may publish abstracts in a proceedings book or journal supplement. Whilst not quite as prestigious as a paper in a peer-reviewed journal, these abstracts can be stepping stones to this Holy Grail. Although it is certainly not easy, it is extremely rewarding to see one’s name in print. I sincerely encourage anyone who is thinking of doing research or writing-up a case report to take the leap of faith. Reference: 1. Williams, GS. Call for papers. BMJ 2006;333:207. Competing interests: None declared |
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Hari Muppala, Senior House Officer Burnley General Hoapital, BB10 2PQ
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Dear Editor My hearty congratulations to Dr. Williams for getting his first well deserved publication in a reputed journal. I do not agree with author that one needs to be extremely lucky in getting there audits published. Most doctors do audits for the sake of doing it without any pre-objective. I have done three audits in one year, one already accepted for publication, other two will be submitted in near future. Two of these audits presented as posters and for the other, abstract submitted which is likely to be accepted for oral/poster presentation. My sole objective of doing an audit is not to get poster/publication but to begin with I choose an interesting and challenging audits that would help the department/ will result in change of practice/ will show exciting findings, which all of my audits did. I also do not agree with the author that all case reports are gems of medical wisdom. Before a junior doctor or for that matter any one who intends to write a case report, there are many pre-requisites that need to be fulfilled. Most important of all is extensive literature search. How many of us are utilising the library facilities to its fullest potential?. I too came across several interesting cases, my first four cases that choose to write up, two have been accepted, one re-revised submitted, other will be accepted without any doubt. Here too my objective to begin with is not publication but what did I learn from it?, and on its way I came across more interesting facts one after the other by in-depth study of the case and by literature search, I felt it’s worth publishing. One needs to be at the right time, for the right journal with the right information. I have few more to the list of my publications. All this in one year, for an overseas doctor who never knew what audit is! Another false impression among many of us is that publications come easily only when you participate in research. This is not true for several reasons. As a junior doctor how many of us understand the principles of research and its design and methodology, forget the rest. So, here too our objective should be to understand them rather than to participate in research. Do wait for my humble tips on how to succeed in getting publications in the near future especially for the junior doctors. Dr Hari Muppala drmuppala@dochdoc.com Competing interests: None declared |
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Phillip J. Colquitt, Technician Independent Comment
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Apart from this enjoyable article by Williams[1], I wish someone would publish on the subject of citation errors in neurology journals, an area that has somehow avoided the self-scrutiny characteristic of other disciplines – if I’m not wrong. You don’t need permission, you don’t need human subjects, and you’ll be the first. Is it needed? Of course it is. [1]Williams GS . "Call for papers". BMJ 2006; 333: 207 Competing interests: None declared |
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Thomas Kallachil, SHO3, General Surgery Queen margaret Hospital, Dunfermline, KY12 0XL
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The article was very interesting. Congratulations to Dr Williams for his first publication, that too in the BMJ. I agree with the fact of changing the outlook of publication because of the new MMC regulation. It may not be 'publish or perish' any more. But still it could well be 'publish and progress'. The most important thing about publication is geting on the track of it . You may have to wait for months or even years to get your first publication. Once you get the hang of it, it is only a matter of persistant effort. My suggestions include 1) Do an extensive literature search before start.
After you complete a study, it is always better to present it at a conference before publishing. Once it is published somewhere, you cannot present it anywhere. So plan things ahead and look for appropriate conferences. Keep an abstract ready for sending it to a conference. You may have to change or modify the abstracts based on the main interest of the conference. Once the study is presented at a conference, it is time for publication. Writing up is probably the most important thing. I would recommend to get help at least for the first couple of times. Once you get your first publication accepted, intelligent hard work will do the rest. Best of luck to all. Competing interests: None declared |
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INDIRA S VINJAMURI, Specialist Registrar in Adult Mental Illness Mersey Forensic Psychiatry Service, Scott Clinic, Rainhill Road, St Helens, WA9 5BD
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Dear Sir, The number of responses to Dr Williams' article reflects the nationwide problem faced by trainees. I would like to mention that the one thing different I have seen is that at my recent review, I produced the papers that I had sent for publication, but were not accepted, and this was acknowledged! The panel thought it was ok as long as I had tried. Although I share the frustrations of no major publications after hours of hard work, I felt somewhat relieved. So, it might be an idea for all trainees to present at their reviews any efforts put in by them. Couple of pointers for successful publications: always submit an audit with a complete cycle; submitting letters, opinions in response to an original article often helps too, rather than try something new. Publication bias persists where well known researchers publish more than the less known trainees, so good luck to all who work hard enough. Competing interests: None declared |
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George Millington, SpR Dermatology Norfolk and Norwich University Hospital, NR4 7UZ, George W.M. Millington
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I read Dr Williams' comments with sympathy. Many SHO's in competitive specialties such as mine are driven to produce publications. I had the advantage of having spent several years in full-time research before applying for an SpR post, so I had a couple of publications. Some studying for an MD or PhD NEVER get any publications however, so attempting to get a thesis "just to get on" can backfire as an approach. I think it is better to get into your specialty before taking out the time to do research for this reason. So what do you do? Audit is compulsory for all doctors, but it is hard to get an audit published, unless it is very large and will lead to a change in national guidelines or similar effect. There are journals devoted to clinical governance and audit, so you never know. Case reports should really be about exceedingly rare phenomena to guarantee getting published, otherwise "why aren't you writing up a case series"? I recently sent one to four relatively modestly ranked journals (all immediate rejections), only for it to be accepted immediately by the fifth with a much higher citation rating!! So keep at it. Another thing to try is to work in teams. You will need to have an agreement who is first (and last) author, but you can have joint authorship remember? It helps keep the motivation going doing an activity which will , realistically, be performed as an extra activity away from work. Competing interests: None declared |
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Christos Zavos, PhD student Second Medical Clinic, Ippokration Hospital, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, 546 42, Greece
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Editor-, I noticed that many people submitted their rapid responses congratulating Dr Williams for publishing his first article ever in the BMJ [1]. However, I believe it takes great courage to admit in public one's inability to publish a paper despite continuous efforts, possibly leading to an obsession. So next time someone greets Dr Williams with the question "So have you got anything published yet?" he will have to present his official declaration published in the BMJ, which, though deeply honest and sincere, I do not find so flattering. References: 1. Williams GS. Call for papers. BMJ 2006;333: 207. Competing interests: None declared |
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Mariam H Akhtar, Medical Student University of Birmingham B15 2TT
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The importance of getting a publication has been emphasised to us medical students also. A major selling point of undertaking an intercalated degree is the possibility of getting work published, putting you in a higher stead when applying for jobs. In this culture of ticking off boxes - getting something published 'no matter how trivial' so long as your name is in print - I wonder... could I add this rapid response to my CV? :) Competing interests: None declared |
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Rahul Potluri, 4th Year Medical Student Birmingham University B152TT
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Absolutely. This culture of publishing material for the sake of CV is beyond controllable. Soon, it will be indistinguishable between students who claim to have publications of immense value and those who have publications, quite frankly for the sake of publications. The medical school emphasis on publications for the CV is not fair. Having personally experienced meaningful research as a result of intercalation and knowing the hard work and perseverance needed to achieve just one meaningful publication, I am envious of those who have publications through meaningless “novel” studies. The problem lies in the emphasis of “quantity” rather than quality. I have come across people who claim that 20-odd publications are required for entry into Specialist Registrar posts in the most competitive of specialities such as Cardiology, Neurosurgery etc. The publications can be editorials, reviews or even letters, all of which are not on the same scale of achievement compared to a research paper. Furthermore, people undertaking PhD or MD degrees may only come out with a couple of publications in-spite of their hard work whereas others may have numerous publications, depending upon numerous factors such as timing of their degree and to large extent luck. The application criteria for jobs seems to be revolve around the need for “creative” doctors and a large portion of this stems from the number of publications a candidate has acquired. The problems that this could cause are two-fold. Firstly the standard of research may decline with significant problems especially in a medical profession enveloped around “Evidence Based Medicine”. Secondly, students will concentrate on achieving publications rather than focussing more on actually learning medicine and hence compromising their knowledge, which in the long-term may be detrimental to their patients. Competing interests: None declared |
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Rahul Potluri, Medical Student Birmingham Uni, B15 2TT
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As feeble as it may sound, it is common practice amongst many candidates to add these to the CV. Furthermore, in some tragic cases,presentations given in Medical School (as part of the course) are also frequently reported on the CV to add bulk. Shambles. Competing interests: None declared |
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Hala Abbas, Biomedical Scientist London
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It has been interesting reading the responses above and some have made some good points about how to start publishing work. Understandably getting published can be a very difficult task to do especially for trainee doctors but with the new MMC regulation I am sure that this will bring a good change. The main point in publishing work is that one should not give up or get disappointed but keep trying. Getting involved in many projects as possible and being there at the right time/ right place is also important. Therefore, the first step that is very important in publication is that one should have done enough background reading on their particular topic. New ideas should be summarised clearly as well as concisely. Also the form of writing is important but this can be adapted by looking at major journals to get the flavour of style and organisation. Contact with appropriate professionals in your field who have more experience is important as they can help to start you, so timing is crucial and off course as in everything in life luck will also be needed. Competing interests: None declared |
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