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PAPERS: Kamran Abbasi and Khalid S Khan India versus Pakistan and the power of a six: an analysis of cricket results BMJ 2004; 328: 800 [Full text]

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Is this BMJ or Wisden's?

ATUL. C. GARUD, Mumbai (Bombay) 400 016   (2 April 2004)

Seriously

Vikas Soni   (2 April 2004)

I'm sorry can you say that again?

Peter Griffiths   (2 April 2004)

Pioneering Work

rob murray   (2 April 2004)

miandad was he so damn good?

jude savio furtado   (3 April 2004)

What has this paper proven?

Srikanth Garikaparthi, Nassau, Bahamas PO Box N-=9710   (3 April 2004)

Different and Refreshing

Dr. Afzal Ahsan, Abbottabad, Pakistan   (3 April 2004)

What is the poit of this article?

Ketan Dhatariya   (3 April 2004)

mmm...

Ayan S Panja   (3 April 2004)

Clutching at the past

Pankaj Agarwal   (3 April 2004)

Re: 'Seriously' & 'Is this BMJ or Wisden's?'

Omer Khayam   (3 April 2004)

They are kidding, aren't they?

Robert I. Rudolph, M.D., FACP   (3 April 2004)

Speak about the present, plan for the future

Riff Khan   (3 April 2004)

...how about Sehwags Tripple Ton?

shabbir usman, Stephanie Fulton   (3 April 2004)

Miandad:The street fighter

Prashant Kulkarni   (3 April 2004)

Venue more important factor in Indo-Pak cricket matches than Miandad

Rahul Walawalkar   (4 April 2004)

but...Nehra turned the psychological advantage in favour of India

Ayaz Jaffar   (4 April 2004)

OK....so Pakistan never having defeated India in World Cup matches has nothing to do with psyche?

Aditya N Mandavilli   (4 April 2004)

Re: Seriously

rahat aididi   (4 April 2004)

good work

karthik obla   (4 April 2004)

Journal or Magazine?

Abhijit M Bal   (4 April 2004)

Flannelled fools?

Anthony E J Fitchett   (5 April 2004)

Publishing guidelines please

O Rahim   (5 April 2004)

Bad cricket !!

Vivekananda P Joshi   (5 April 2004)

Miandad's sixer and all the fuss..

Sumit Chawla   (5 April 2004)

Is BMJ not getting quality articles to publish these days? Not only it is a badly written, the analysis tools are also faulty.

Deepankar Roy   (5 April 2004)

Stats, Stats, and xxxx lies

Dr. Rashid Ali   (5 April 2004)

Hehehe

Brian N Verona   (5 April 2004)

Indians will never accept their mistakes

Salman Mirza   (5 April 2004)

Analysis of India versus Pakistan cricket results: the importance of informative match outcomes, confounders, and multivariate analysis

Martin Voracek, Anton K. Formann   (5 April 2004)

Irrelevent and trite..

Mathew J. Antony   (5 April 2004)

Irrelevent and trite..

Mathew J. Antony   (5 April 2004)

Don't make it an issue now

Dr Ahmad Tariq Ansari   (6 April 2004)

Re: Clutching at the past

Muahmmad Aqdas, 74600   (6 April 2004)

The possible confounding factor in the cricket puzzle...

Hilary Butler   (6 April 2004)

Please hush it up!!!

Nitesh D Shetty   (6 April 2004)

Re: Flannelled fools?

Robert I. Rudolph, MD. FACP   (6 April 2004)

Re: good work

Javed A. Khan   (6 April 2004)

Past statistics in present, does not hold good in the cricket field

Mangesh V Desai   (6 April 2004)

Why not Sanath Jayasuryas batting style which transformed Srilanka

Mangesh V Desai   (6 April 2004)

4 the people

Krishnan Prasad   (6 April 2004)

Go ask Gawaskar

Jamshed Azhar - ACA   (6 April 2004)

Cool Down people and accept the truth

Bhisham Harchadani   (6 April 2004)

Oh YES, the power of that six

Adnan Zafar   (7 April 2004)

Lets face the truth!

Wajahat Mateen   (7 April 2004)

Re: Re: Flannelled fools and Americans?

Mark Struthers   (7 April 2004)

What about 'biased' umpiring?

Sundar Rajan   (7 April 2004)

Re: Go ask Gawaskar

Krishnan Prasad   (7 April 2004)

Good effort by the authors to shift the limelight from India's victory at Multan.

Dr Sahana Kini   (7 April 2004)

Kamran Abbassi is spot on

A Choudary   (7 April 2004)

Pure Indian - Never changes

T Qayyum   (8 April 2004)

Re: Kamran Abbassi is spot on

Krishnan Prasad   (8 April 2004)

Re: Kamran Abbassi is spot on

Raaed M. Khan   (8 April 2004)

Re: Oh YES, the power of that magnificient six

Javed A. Khan   (8 April 2004)

Too much Hate Mongering

Sheik Muhammad Yasir   (8 April 2004)

Excusez-moi Monsieur Javed Khan

Dr Sahana (MBBS, FAGE) Kini   (9 April 2004)

Time Wasting Activities

Jalil Ahmed   (9 April 2004)

Re: Too much Hate Mongering

Deepankar Roy   (9 April 2004)

Re: Re: Oh YES, the power of that magnificient six

Abu Bakr Farooq   (9 April 2004)

Kamran Abbassi is spot on

A Choudary   (9 April 2004)

What a silly article?

Umesh Prabhu   (9 April 2004)

PLEASE,IT WAS JUST ONE SIX..... WHAT ABOUT SEHWAG'S TRIPLE TON AND THE THUNDEROUS INNINGS OF SACHIN?

Abhishek Vootukuru   (10 April 2004)

Re: Good effort by the authors to shift the limelight from India's victory at Multan.

Farooq Ali   (10 April 2004)

GET BACK TO WORK .. all of you !!!

Jawad Kayani, ALL OF YOU   (11 April 2004)

lack of power in the six

anil joshi, pe1 1un   (12 April 2004)

Too much Hate Mongering - Lets put our hearts together

Sumita Singh   (12 April 2004)

Re: 4 the people

Omer Elmagboul   (15 April 2004)

Re: Re: 4 the people

Krishnan Prasad   (19 April 2004)

Laddishness at the BMJ

ALEX SCOTT-SAMUEL   (24 April 2004)

Re: 4 the people

Javed A. Khan   (5 May 2004)

BMJ and cricket?

Nayanika Barat, Toowoomba ,Australia   (6 May 2004)

Miandad's six: a metaphor for chaos and complexity.

Vivian S Rambihar   (8 May 2004)

Cricket and peace Zindabad

Vidhu Mayor   (18 June 2004)

We should have more articles like this

Rajarshi Raha   (20 June 2004)

Lighten Up

Heather C. Collier   (24 June 2004)

Is this BMJ or Wisden's? 2 April 2004
ATUL. C. GARUD, Director,Healthcare Quality Hinduja National Hospital, Mumbai (Bombay) 400 016 Send response to journal: Re: Is this BMJ or Wisden's?	I know Mr. Abbasi is as accomplished a cricket writer as he is as a deputy editor of BMJ, but for some time, I wondered whether I was reading his article in the BMJ or the Wisden's. I, for one, fail to understand the relevance of his piece in the BMJ,even though the issue is on South Asia,unless he is making a case that the incidence of depression is related to the results on the cricket pitches!Incidentally,he should have also analyzed the results prior to, and post neutral umpires and at neutral venues and in the World cup. As I write this, India has just completed a comprehensive win in the Multan test.May be that is the landmark he was referring to, in his last sentence? Dr. A. Garud Competing interests: None declared
Seriously 2 April 2004
Vikas Soni, Medical Advisor Ahmedabad (380009), INDIA Send response to journal: Re: Seriously	Dear Sir, I am pretty flummoxed about the reasoning behind publishing such a ‘paper’ in a reputed medical journal with the theme issue of ‘Health in South Asia’. I have tried to quickly scan through the ‘Papers’ section of a few previous theme issues and nowhere perhaps has been there such a frivolous topic. If it’s an attempt at humour, it just goes on to show how serious an issue ‘South Asian' health really is. Vikas Soni Competing interests: I am a South Asian, living in India.
I'm sorry can you say that again? 2 April 2004
Peter Griffiths, Senior Lecturer King's College London, UK, SE19 2QU Send response to journal: Re: I'm sorry can you say that again?	None of us like to be caught out by laughing when no joke was intended or (alternatively)by appearing stupid by just not getting it. However in this case I confess - I just don't get it. What exactly is the purpose of this paper (if it's not a joke) and if it is (as I suspect and fear is obvious to others) can someone explain it to me? There - I may have made an (April) fool of myself but let me be the first to admit it. Competing interests: None declared
Pioneering Work 2 April 2004
rob murray, professor (emeritus) university of toronto ON M5S 1A8 Send response to journal: Re: Pioneering Work	As an exile in Canada for many years, one of the things I have missed most has been cricket. The sport is played here, but somehow the ambience is not that favorable, particularly in January. Thus I was most pleasantly surprised to see the article by Drs Abbasi & Khan. I have a friend who is a physician in India. He has described to me how almost all activities in both countries came to a halt during the recent series. I would argue that this must have a significant impact on health in both countries. It would be most illuminating if health personnel on the spot could report statistics on the incidence of MIs, strokes, anxiety attacks, bizarre behavior, decreased surgical operations,etc during the matches. This could easily be extended to World Cup rugby games, international ice hockey games, Ryder Cup matches and of course soccer games (e.g. Rangers vs. Celtic). I see the beginnings of a new field of study and would like to thank the authors and the Journal for their pioneering efforts. Rob Murray MB, PhD Competing interests: None declared
miandad was he so damn good? 3 April 2004
jude savio furtado, counseller sweden 0046 31 522708 Send response to journal: Re: miandad was he so damn good?	Please please please give me a break. He got a full toss on his legside for crying out loud. Our lower order batmen of today hit sixes too. True he won the match for pakistan but it more the bad bowling of chetan that made things easier. & yes India´s performance did get from bad to worce but then we still lacked good bowlers till the very end.Look at where India is today with a little help from our bowlers . We are beating the hell out of the pakistanis in their own backyard thanks to your god Mr miandad & his old fashion ways. I would rate brett lee`s six in australia much higher cause it was quite a good ball but still got very bad treatment from a lower order batmen . Now thats something Mr Abbasi ! But the aussies as great as they are are still not making a big deal about it. So please lets not try to make the big mouth miandad some kinda god. He must be great in pakistan but to the Indians the coolheaded zaheer abbas was more appreciated. Competing interests: None declared
What has this paper proven? 3 April 2004
Srikanth Garikaparthi, Consultant Plastic Surgeon Princess Margaret Hopstial, Nassau, Bahamas PO Box N-=9710 Send response to journal: Re: What has this paper proven?	I fail to understand why this paper was even published in BMJ when hundresd of better medical papers cannot make it to publication.The analysis of the whole situation has proven what? What has the author set forth as an objective and what has emerged. This could have qualified for a news report Competing interests: None declared
Different and Refreshing 3 April 2004
Dr. Afzal Ahsan, Professor Ayub Medical College,, Abbottabad, Pakistan Send response to journal: Re: Different and Refreshing	I was taken by a pleasant surprise to see this article in the journal. It goes to show how a single event can have a profound psychological effect on the people involved. This, in turn, affects the performance of those individuals. It took more than a decade for Indian cricketers to be able to jump that psychological barrier which that "Six" created. This article emphasizes the point that our psyche, conditions our responses (to situations), actions and even physical performance. Good work Dr. Abbasi and Khan. Competing interests: None declared
What is the poit of this article? 3 April 2004
Ketan Dhatariya, Locum Consultant in General and Metabolic Medicine Homerton Hospital, Hackney, London Send response to journal: Re: What is the poit of this article?	In an otherwise excellent specialist edition of the BMJ, this article stands out and one of the most pointless articles I have read in a long time. Cricket is important on the Subcontinant, as demonstarted by the fact that 1 in 10 of the entire population of the world stopped to watch India beat Pakistan in the first one day international in the current series. The authors state that they have not taken into account weather, ground conditions, etc. All of which are confounding variables of extreme importance. To say the Miandad's six was a pivital point in the history of cricket on the subcontinent is misleading, EVERY game is pivital. Why would the editior of the BMJ allow such a pithy, pointless article to appear? Competing interests: I am a cricket fan and support India. I regularly fail the cricket test.
mmm... 3 April 2004
Ayan S Panja, GP Bedfordshire Send response to journal: Re: mmm...	I am really confused. The personal view in this themed issue was surely enough to acknowledge the influence that cricket has in India and Pakistan, but this paper, although interesting in it's medical approach in terms of analysis, obvious bias and presentation, has absolutely no direct relevance to medicine. Beyond that, it is not exactly a topic which is not potentially inflammatory, of which the authors will be well aware. One would have to use a lot of imagination and hypothesis generation to convince himself that this was medically relevant to the journal's readership, and on those grounds it is incredible that it has been published, when so many papers are rejected on that very point. How papers are selected and who they are selected by for inclusion in the BMJ is an absolute mystery to me. I can only assume that editors can publish just about anything they like? Nice prerogative if that is the case, but when you get appeals in future from people who submit papers which you reject, they will be able to cite this paper as an inclusion benchmark. Competing interests: None declared
Clutching at the past 3 April 2004
Pankaj Agarwal, Consultant, Ph.D. Boston Send response to journal: Re: Clutching at the past	Apart from the statistical flaws, such as non-control of other effect variables and limited sample size (Central limit Theorem), the paper is developed on the very fallacious assumption that there is a cause and effect. All that happened was that Chetan delivered a loose full toss on the leg side which was hoisted for a six, since not much was to be lost (it being the last ball of the match). Heck, that 'six' did not affect the outcome of the Kargil incursion, despite the intruders perched on the commanding heights (or should it have?). Dr. Abbasi should wake up to a 'India Shining' and direct his efforts towards meaningful activity, else he can ponder on the psychological impact of the the 'destructive batting' by Messers Shewag and Co. on the nation of Pakistan and its expats living all around*. And if he is reading, the Pakistani owners at the local gas station invited me for Biryani and the next Test match at their home. Jai Hind and Vande Mataram. * Yet another paper idea for BMJ... Competing interests: None declared
Re: 'Seriously' & 'Is this BMJ or Wisden's?' 3 April 2004
Omer Khayam, Research Associate Ghulam Ishaq Khan Institute of Engineering Sciences & Technology, 23460, Topi, Pakistan Send response to journal: Re: Re: 'Seriously' & 'Is this BMJ or Wisden's?'	"Tranquebar(TN): An 85-year-old man, who was a staunch cricket fan, died here last night, reportedly due to the "pleasant shock" of India winning the fourth one-day international cricket match against Pakistan yesterday, family sources said today." dated 22 March 2004, THE TIMES OF INDIA. "CHENNAI: A 45-year-old carpenter, an avid cricket follower, reportedly died of a massive heart attack after India lost to Pakistan by 12 runs at Rawalpindi last night." Dated 17 March 2004, THE HINDU. "BOMBAY: A cricket buff died watching the last ball of the first ODI in Karachi...." Dated 15 March 2004, DAWN The statistics proving the gravity of India-Pakistan cricket matches are numerous. I believe this article (indifferent to India-Pakistan cricket stats) is a genuine effort in highlighting the pshycological impact of sporting events (like the marvellous six) on not just spectators but teams themselves. Furthur study could give a greater insight to a team's doctor/pshycologist in handling post game trauma. Competing interests: None declared
They are kidding, aren't they? 3 April 2004
Robert I. Rudolph, M.D., FACP, Clinical Professor of Dermatology, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA USA 1134 Penn Avenue, Wyomissing, PA 19610 USA Send response to journal: Re: They are kidding, aren't they?	A lot of synapses seem to have been fired for an awfully long time by a number of people for no apparent reason. Competing interests: I'm American, and have never, ever, understood cricket
Speak about the present, plan for the future 3 April 2004
Riff Khan, Systems Admin 94541 Send response to journal: Re: Speak about the present, plan for the future	The six of the last ball - cricket's version of 2 goals in the last 2 minutes to tie and then to win the game. Pakistan must've enjoyed that moment and the Indian cricket team must have had trouble sleeping at night for the next few days. But a pyschological effect spanning a decade - Gimme a *bleep* break!! Pakistan had the stronger team - simple! Now India has a far more experienced side with a lot more talented batsmen with a lot more talent and therefore they are beating Pakistan in Pakistan. Pakistan has to come up with a cricketing infrastructure and policy that will produce a team that performs consistently for a long time. There is talent, you can see it in some of the most amazing individual feats in cricket but that talent needs to be moulded, combined and executed for the Pakistan team to win. India - gimme a fast bowler. Just give it to me - a billion people (and counting) and not a genuine pace bowler. Change those placid tracks, create incentives in the cricket policy for bowlers and produce me one Wasim or a Waqar or a Imran or a Shoaib, hell just produce a Aaqib. Lets talk NOW, all you cave dwellers. Competing interests: None declared
...how about Sehwags Tripple Ton? 3 April 2004
shabbir usman, national intt of gene therapy lahore, Stephanie Fulton Send response to journal: Re: ...how about Sehwags Tripple Ton?	Well done dr abbasi....now when will you start researching the effects of india's series win and sehwags tripple ton on cardio muscles and brains of 140 million pakistanis???? Competing interests: None declared
Miandad:The street fighter 3 April 2004
Prashant Kulkarni, Consultant Physician Thane, Mumbai,India Send response to journal: Re: Miandad:The street fighter	Miandad has a love-hate relationship with India. Most Indians would love to criticise Miandad. But do not forget that Miandad stood up against Dennis Lillee, did a funny whoopy a la Kiran More and my word if ever your life depended on any batsman then the ability of Miandad to milk those impossible singles , work the score inexorably to the required total and still be on the wicket till the end surely made him the cricketing world's Michael Bevan of the eighties. I think the article is talking about a post-Miandad six collective Indian depression when playing in Sharjah alone.In world cup matches and on neutral grounds where the two teams met subsequently I do not think the subsequent results were so earthshakingly different. With Pakistan having been beaten in the one day series and pulverized in the first test in Multan by an innings and 52 runs surely we must watch out for an equivalent collective Pakistani depression in the remaining tests and subsequent series at home and abroad. Competing interests: None declared
Venue more important factor in Indo-Pak cricket matches than Miandad 4 April 2004
Rahul Walawalkar, Analyst NY, US 11235 Send response to journal: Re: Venue more important factor in Indo-Pak cricket matches than Miandad	Dear Sir, Before I get to the point that Venue is most important in results of Indo-Pak cricket matches, I would like to appreciate the efforts put in by Mr. Kamran Abbasi and Mr. Khalid S Khan in coming up with the statistics. Although some of us would like to agree with the results even with out looking into statistical analysis, I decided to run some numbers on my own. Based on couple of changes in the way the statistics were evaluated, the results of the research by Mr. Kamran Abbasi and Mr. Khalid S Khan is very misleading. Particularly for people who have followed India-Pakistan matches over decades, authors should know that UAE by no means can be considered as a neutral venue (although for non followers this may look strange). By including UAE in the neutral venues, Mr. Kamran Abbasi and Mr. Khalid S Khan have come up with results that Venue (home, away, or neutral) was not associated with outcome ( = 0.01, P = 0.82). If you see the analysis of the ODI matches between 2 countries without venues in India, Pak and UAE; India always has maintained above average record (winning 15 Matches out of 31 played since 1986 against 14 by Pakistan and winning 17 out of 33 matches played since 1978 against 14 by Pakistan). You can realize the importance of UAE factor (not the Miandad factor) by comparing the results of matches played outside UAE. Over the years India has won 40.3% matches in non UAE venues as compared to 39.6% since the 86 series. So it seems obvious to me that the key deciding factor in Indo-Pak matches is venue, and not the Miandad sixer. If these statistics don't convince Mr. Kamran Abbasi and Mr. Khalid S Khan of the importance of venue, then may be the 4-0 record maintained by India in the World Cup should be sufficient. With best regards, Rahul Walawalkar Analyst NY, US   Table 1: Results Since the Miandad Factor Year Venue ODIs IND PAK Tie NR Since 86 Total 74 25 46 0 3 Since 86 Outside IND/Pak/UAE 31 15 14 0 2 Since 86 UAE 21 4 17 0 0 Since 86 Pakistan 11 4 6 0 1 Since 86 India 12 2 10 0 0 Since 86 Outside UAE 53 21 29 0 3 Since 86 % Wins Outside UAE 39.6% 54.7% 0.0% 5.7% Table 2: All time Results Year Venue ODIs IND PAK Tie NR Since 78 All 91 33 54 0 4 Since 78 Outside IND/Pak/UAE 33 17 14 0 2 Since 78 UAE 24 6 18 0 0 Since 78 Pakistan 20 6 12 0 2 Since 78 India 14 4 10 0 0 Since 78 Outside AUE 67 27 36 0 4 Since 78 % Wins Outside UAE 40.3% 53.7% 0.0% 6.0% Research by: rahul{at}walawalkar.com www.walawalkar.com Source for Raw Data: Crickinfo www.cricket.org Competing interests: None declared
but...Nehra turned the psychological advantage in favour of India 4 April 2004
Ayaz Jaffar, University Student Karachi, &74800 Send response to journal: Re: but...Nehra turned the psychological advantage in favour of India	13 March '04 after a fascinating matc is was all to play in the last over. Nehra has the ball in his hand whom to ball! moin khan the senior boy with a young and furious Rana. After Indias top performance in the bat and Inzi'z rescue for Pakistan it was all up to the shoulder of Moin Khan. Last ball of the over, it was history repeated from sharjah to Karachi; from one generation to the other. Miandad watching it from the pavillion and Sharma watching in his home tense moment but the history could'nt repeat it self! A six was required and all that moin could do was to hit it right straight in the air. The men in blue won the encounter! Competing interests: None declared
OK....so Pakistan never having defeated India in World Cup matches has nothing to do with psyche? 4 April 2004
Aditya N Mandavilli, Software Engineering Student University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA-90089 Send response to journal: Re: OK....so Pakistan never having defeated India in World Cup matches has nothing to do with psyche?	Miandad's six might have dented the confidence of the then Indian team. However, the current players were babies/kids then, and probably never had an impact on them. So, trying to correleate the Miandad six with the bad fortunes of the Indian team vs. Pakistan overall is a childish idea. Ever since that six, India has played Pakistan in the 1992,1996,1999, and 2003 world cups - India won COMPREHENSIVELY on all four occasions. What happened to the Miandad psyche there??? Whatever statistical calculations have been done, is meaningless...it is pure coincidence!! Pakistan have gone on to lose to teams like Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. This article deserves to be in a Pakistan tabloid rather than a reputed journal (which by the way is not even related to cricket!!) DISCLAIMER: The above opinions are my own, and I am not assuming responsibility for anything that arises out of it. Competing interests: None declared
Re: Seriously 4 April 2004
rahat aididi, student Mumbai,400079 Send response to journal: Re: Re: Seriously	My god, I never even saw Miandad even in all time 50 greatest batsmen and our dear Dr.Abbas says he should have been acclaimed as the world's greatest batsman(ahead of Sir Vivian Richards!!!!!this is horrible to read). This is stunning. And about this article getting published in such a prestigious medical journal, my opinion is that the editor must be a pakistani. Now, dear Dr.Abbas, please start researching on the effect of India's win at Multan on the daily life of pakistanis. Competing interests: None declared
good work 4 April 2004
karthik obla, research director nrmca, 21044 Send response to journal: Re: good work	This is good work. I had always felt this but never had the time to analyse. But I agree with Rahul also that Sharjah is not entirely NEUTRAL. The current Indian team has many things going for it - experience, discipline, and the much discussed killer instinct.... Competing interests: None declared
Journal or Magazine? 4 April 2004
Abhijit M Bal, Specialist Registrar Department of Microbiology, The General Infirmary, Leeds LS1 3EX Send response to journal: Re: Journal or Magazine?	Dear Editor, It is indeed surprising that such an article can be published in a reputed journal like BMJ. The BMJ likes to remind its readers time and again about the lack of publication space and I believe many good articles (pertaining to medicine) are turned down for the same reason. There is a difference between a medical journal and a magazine. You could otherwise appoint Sir Geoffrey Boycott as one of the editors of BMJ. I think you are taking your readers for a ride. Or perhaps hitting them for a six. Competing interests: None declared
Flannelled fools? 5 April 2004
Anthony E J Fitchett, General Practitioner Mornington Health Centre, Dunedin, New Zealand Send response to journal: Re: Flannelled fools?	It is sad to see the number of angry or puzzled reponses to the inclusion of Abbassi's and Khan's lighthearted article in the BMJ. It is, perhaps, understandable that Rudolph, an American who admits to not understanding cricket, should think he misses the point, but those from the countries where cricket is now endemic have no such excuse. Setting aside the Packer inspired "pyjama game" that masquerades as cricket, surely Rudolph's "synapses fired for an awful long time by a number of people for no apparent reason" is a pretty good description of three or five day cricket. Cricket is a competition in thinking, expressed with bat and ball, and one of its glories is the possibility of playing for five days to achieve a draw. (For an explanation of cricket by Americans for Americans, Rudolph might consult "Here's England" by Ruth Kenny & Richard Bransten [Rupert Hart-Davis, 1951], remembering that they wrote in the golden days when "It is UNTHINKABLE that an umpire's decision should be challenged by so much as a raised eyebrow") And isn't the paraphrase attributed to CLR James in the first sentence derived from Rudyard Kipling's "... what should they know of England who only England know?"? Yours faithfully, AEJ Fitchett. Competing interests: Despite cricket being the default compulsory sport at school I remain unable to catch balls, throw balls, or hit balls with bats. I am, however, expert at finding the spot near the boundary where the ball is least likely to come, and am grateful to cricket for forcing me to take up rowing.
Publishing guidelines please 5 April 2004
O Rahim, GP Luton Send response to journal: Re: Publishing guidelines please	It would be useful if the authors could justify the inclusion of their article in the journal and its relevance to medicine. I am sure it is an interesting paper but is the BMJ the right place for it? I am concerned about the editorial panel and the decisions they are making. It is original... Competing interests: None declared
Bad cricket !! 5 April 2004
Vivekananda P Joshi, Senior House Officer in Medicine Causeway Hospital, Coleraine BT52 1JL Send response to journal: Re: Bad cricket !!	I am still trying to figure out whats right about this article? abstract? method of study? analysis? subsequent results??? and whats is it doing in a reputed medical journal?????? Is this a googley for your readers Dr Abbas? Competing interests: None declared
Miandad's sixer and all the fuss.. 5 April 2004
Sumit Chawla, Avid Cricket Watcher Indian working in US Send response to journal: Re: Miandad's sixer and all the fuss..	At the outset, I'd like to mention that I am an Indian, a very proud one at that, and watch the Cricket with lots of interest. There have been several comments trying to play down the significance of the Miandad Sixer. As one who watched this particular match (albeit as a kid), I agree with the authors. This sixer was a major blow to India's momentum. Remember, before this, India were doing so well that it seemed impossible to defeat them. They had won the 1983 world cup, the 1985 World Series, and just a few months back (if I remember correctly), they had done a brilliant rescue act at Sharjah, by bundling out Pakistan for 87 when they were out for 125. After this particular sixer, the Indian team never reached the heights of 1983-1985 patch. I believe that the current team is free of the fear that haunted the members of 1985 team, and so can go and win anywhere. This is the measure of Ganguly's captaincy: He has imbibed the same kind of mental toughness in this team that Miandad & Co. had in the Eighties. Now, to turn around and say that Miandad wasn't tough enough is a bit silly. Competing interests: None declared
Is BMJ not getting quality articles to publish these days? Not only it is a badly written, the analysis tools are also faulty. 5 April 2004
Deepankar Roy, PhD Student Dept. Biochemistry and Molecular Biology,University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90033 Send response to journal: Re: Is BMJ not getting quality articles to publish these days? Not only it is a badly written, the analysis tools are also faulty.	Drs. Abbasi and Khan have rightly pointed out that Cricket is a matter of passion in the part of South Asia we inhabit and it generates significant amounts interest in populations on both sides of the India- Pakistan border.And even though this game enjoys the form of popularity unknown in other parts of the world and even though reports of extreme ecstasy, palpitation, cardiac arrests and other health related conditions are not uncommon during a game, it is wrong to say that this is an important determinant and component of a psychological makeup of a population which influences the health outcomes significantly9As cited by the authors). And though the readers get the feeling that the authors believe in this faulty reasoning, the article, surprisingly does not include any data in this regard. Instead, the authors have chosen to mark an insignificant event(Miandad'six) and have tried to correlate it with the results of the games after that "significant" event.It is exasperating to think that whereas so many quality health and medicine research articles do not get a space in BMJ, a "Paper" like this article, without doubtful(if any at all any contribution to original knowledge passes the editor's test. Do the present editor's of BMJ know that before publication of a paper, it has to be reviewed by some knowledgable authority? And if indeed this paper has been reviewed(which I doubt very much), what shows is the complete negligence on part of the reviewer and the editors not to have caught the basic lapses in understanding and faulty use of some statistics to prove what authors only think to be true. To term one event that has decided the general outcome of the matches between the two countries for 18 odd years(1986-2004) is not only childish but is also misleading. (A)As far as cricket is concerned(and I will talk about the analysis also), that was only a game. The teams of both countries have changed many times over in the period of discussion and so has the standards of the game. In the match that is discussed as the turning point, Miandad scored a six of the last ball of the match to get a Pakistan win. Now, consider these facts: 1. That match was a very close match and India and Pakistan had matched each other's abilities. 2. The delivery was a very bad one, a full-toss at the leg stump and Miandad had to hit a six for a win[So,(a) he had no other option and (b) He had nothing to lose, he did not have to save his wicket and he just had to try to score the maximum] 3. He swung the bat , it hit the right area on the bat and in a commendable effort of Miandad, he turned the match on its head(Only that game, not the games played after that). And the cleverly hidden suggestion that it had a negative impact on the psychology of the players is also not supported by any data. The authors do not have any believable basis here to comment on the psycho-mental state of these team members of the teams from these countries that played after that match. And to extend that to a time period of 18 years,and over to different individuals(players) can hardly be termed scientific.Especially given the fact that India and Pakistan have had a similar (if not equal) track record in Cricket. No match can be equlated and each match is as good as the players and also the conditions. Even though some trends in results are observed over a period of time, to term one event as the decider of that trend is a laughable. (B) The authors have taken one event to make their studies and analysis, but have very conveniently forgotten(selective amnesia?) to take into account the very important determinants of the game such as the pitch condition, the weather condition, and the team composition. I am not sure what kind of analysis can take all these factors into account, but to leave them as un-analysable and "too innumerable to measure or adjust for factors" and selectively choosing one insignificant event as the only determinant only shows the ignorance on the part of the authors, it also points out to the unprecendented mishandling/misrepresentation of data and analysis tools. We as scientists should be aware of our responsibilities and should be very careful in putting our data(which is missing in this case) and analysing it correctly(which is faulty here).Such nonsense should not be allowed to keep its place in scientific literature and should be retracted and renounced if we want to maintain any degree of sanity in this irresponsible madness. (C) Now for the analysis;I do not claim to be a very good statistician and did not find anything amiss in the analysis here, except for a glaring mistake, which should have been pointed out by others also. The analysis is not time-standardised for the Test matches and One day Internationals and hence holds no meaning at all when the authors compare the results between the two forms of the game after the "event".If I know it right, the two teams have been playing test matches from the 50s whereas the first one day interational match to be ever played between any two countries was in 1971. It is not hard to make it out that India and Pakistan could not have started playing the One-day interantionals prior to 1971. Which means that the x-axis showing the number of matches does not make any sense because 50th Test match and the 50th One-day International are not at the same point in the graph. And hence the Red line showing the combined result of blue dots(the One-day results) and Green dots(Test match results) is a mistake, especially when the Miandad line(the dotted Black line) gives a specific year(1986). Have the authors/reviewers given a thought about this? (D)If you read the graph and going by the -1 and +1 for a India win and a Pakistan win respectively, it would show that the blue line(for One-day Internationals) start rising from about the 50th match(2-3 matches before the so-called Miandad event). Secondly, the green dotted line(showing test match results) does not rise even after the Miandad event for a long long time(that is a flat line fromabout the 40th match point till the 75 match point).Therefore, the Miandad six is not after all the "one event that changed it forever for Pakistan", as the authors have touted. (E) This type of a graph is a wrong representation where cumulative points are used in the Y axis. In a game like Cricket, every match you play starts from a zero and the authors should have used a histgram like analysis to give bar of +1 unit for a Pakistan win and a -1 unitfor an India win and keeping it zero for an undecided result. The X-axis could be the match number in increasing order. That ways, a Miandad six would be there in the 52nd or 53rd point(the 52nd or the 53rd match played, as taken from this graph) and if there are more positive bars after that point. that might be a better analysis of what the authors want to say. (F) Is the BMJ not getting good articles these days? It would be good if the authors and the editors can have a look at the above-mentioned points and it would be in good interest of science if this aricle is retracted. Competing interests: 1.I am an Indian and support the Indian National Cricket team,However, my analysis of the game is fact based and neutral. I do not have any competing interests with the authors,certainly not on such a naive and misleading article. 2. Being a medicine research student, it shocks me how a reputed medicine journal like BMJ gives space to such poorly written and analysed article with no significance to medicine.
Stats, Stats, and xxxx lies 5 April 2004
Dr. Rashid Ali, Director LE11 3HT Send response to journal: Re: Stats, Stats, and xxxx lies	We all know, that the greatness of a player or a team is a gauged by statistics. We are all hell bent on analyzing the results based on batting/bowling performances. I have played competitive cricket for well over 20 years, and as a cricketer I know the saying, “catches win matches”. A bowler returns match figures of 5 for 40, but nowhere does it say that two of his victims got out to stunning catches held by the fielder. In close Games 5 to 10 runs saved in the field is as vital as scoring a hundred. So maybe the authors need to explore the effect of fielding on the outcome. The fact of the matter is that prior to 1986 Pakistan was never considered a good fielding side. The modern trends of athleticism may certainly have altered the trends. I feel that in one-day format, each delivery is an event in its own right, and the WIN is a culmination of many such events Competing interests: None declared
Hehehe 5 April 2004
Brian N Verona, Student South Australia 5006 Send response to journal: Re: Hehehe	This article made interesting reading, however I failed to see the point of it being in the BMJ. Kudos for a great analysis, though however I feel this is an attempt to shift focus from India's bludgeoning in Multan to the pandemonium in Sharjah 18 years ago. Here is an attempt to remember what Pakistan was, though what would be advisable to the respected authors would be to see what's going wrong with the present team. Funny irony, Miandadsaheb's the coach. Plenty of talent in the team...i'm sure they'll come back, around 2016, you never know. Sincerely, Brian Nicholas Verona Student, Cricket lover Competing interests: Cricket, statistical analysis, not to the extent that the esteemed authors have gone through
Indians will never accept their mistakes 5 April 2004
Salman Mirza, student 75500 Send response to journal: Re: Indians will never accept their mistakes	It is sad to see that an article is not being challenged actually because of its facts but because of national pride. Well I believe the authors never meant to disgrace any Indian he was merely pointing out a fact. Good for India that they defeated Pakistan in Pakistan. They defeated them because Nobody has seen such a determined Indian team ever before. However it is unfair to say that Javed Miandad's six did not have any Impact or Bret lee's six was better this is just and Indian speaking out of furiosity. I have nothing against Indians being a Pakistani but I would really love if they would accpet their defeats and not just the Indians if Pakistanis should also accept their own defeats. I may not be as educated as the rest of you sending in replies im too young. But I believe that such replies are causing unneccasary hatred. JIAY PAKISTAN!! JIAY INDIA!! P.S Its just a game my educated PHD FRIENDS!!!!!!! Competing interests: None declared
Analysis of India versus Pakistan cricket results: the importance of informative match outcomes, confounders, and multivariate analysis 5 April 2004
Martin Voracek, research resident Department of Psychology, University of Vienna, A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Anton K. Formann Send response to journal: Re: Analysis of India versus Pakistan cricket results: the importance of informative match outcomes, confounders, and multivariate analysis	EDITOR--In their entertaining paper, Abbasi and Khan [1] presented evidence for an enduring influence of a 1986 landmark cricket victory of Pakistan over India on match results since then (the "Miandad effect"). Here we show that this finding is driven by the chosen data analysis and peculiarities of the data set. We obtained data on all 139 India versus Pakistan matches up to March 28 2004 (www.channel4.com/sport/cricket/stats). 37 of these encounters were drawn matches (abandonned due to external causes or tied result), and since these are uninformative for victory versus defeat, they were excluded from analysis. Overall, Pakistan won 63 out of the remaining 102 matches (binomial test, two-tailed P=0.022), but had not significantly more post-1986 victories than before (64.9% versus 52.0%; Kendall's tau- b=0.11, P=0.26). Results from appropriate multivariate statistical analysis (adjusted odds ratios from a forced-entry binary logistic regression model) further suggest that there is no "Miandad effect", when other factors are accounted for. Overall, the regression model was statistically significant (chi˛=18.56, df=8, P=0.017). Observation period (post-1986 versus before) was not significantly associated with Pakistan match victories (OR=4.26, 95%-CI=0.58-31.37, P=0.16), as were match type (test versus one day internationals, OR=1.32, CI=0.21-8.16, P=0.77), toss winning (OR=0.90, CI=0.36-2.20, P=0.81), and batting first (OR=1.62, CI=0.66-3.96, P=0.29). However, venue was significantly associated with match outcome (P=0.008). Relative to home matches (reference category, OR=1.00), Pakistan was significantly more likely to win in India (OR=40.48, CI=2.73-601.19, P=0.007) and in venues elsewhere (OR=21.89, CI=1.38-346.45, P=0.029), but this pattern is qualified by a significant interaction term (venue X period, P=0.044). Post-1986 matches were more often played at Indian or international venues than before, and it is these encounters that Pakistan won disproportionately. It thus appears that the "Miandad effect" is decisively driven by the inclusion of a large proportion of uninformative observations (drawn matches) into the analysis and further by the confounding of venue type with observation period in the informative remainder of the data set. [1] Abbasi K, Khan KS. India versus Pakistan and the power of a six: an analysis of cricket results. BMJ 2004;328:800. (3 April.) Competing interests: None declared
Irrelevent and trite.. 5 April 2004
Mathew J. Antony, Senior Registar Benghazi, Libya Send response to journal: Re: Irrelevent and trite..	Clearly, the last ball six by Miandad did have a negative impact on some Indian players playing against Pakistan in Sharjah. But the paper on the whole is badly written and the inferences, trite. Competing interests: None declared
Irrelevent and trite.. 5 April 2004
Mathew J. Antony, Senior Registar Benghazi, Libya Send response to journal: Re: Irrelevent and trite..	Clearly, the last ball six by Miandad did have a negative impact on some Indian players for a while playing against Pakistan in Sharjah. But the paper on the whole is badly written and the inferences, trite. Competing interests: None declared
Don't make it an issue now 6 April 2004
Dr Ahmad Tariq Ansari, Chest Specialist Al Ain Military Hospital, Al Ain, UAE Send response to journal: Re: Don't make it an issue now	Having read the article and rapid responses, it was quite amusing to note that most of the readers whose responses were in negative were from India and obviously, most of them did not like this psyche factor. I am sure that if they had played a sports ( especially cricket) seriously at a high level only then they would have understood all this even better. After all it's a sports and a better team on that day wins. India is proving that right now in Pakistan. Let's not make it controversial and enjoy cricket. Thanks to Dr. Abbasi & Dr Khalid for their good work. Competing interests: None declared
Re: Clutching at the past 6 April 2004
Muahmmad Aqdas, Student GIK Institure, 74600 Send response to journal: Re: Re: Clutching at the past	It is rather a shame that people dont like to give credit when it is due.It wasnt just one six which needs to be taken into accoount rather the whole of that match which led to the "six".A dodgy fighting innings against all odds,thats what captured the imagination,thats what dented the psyche.The fight back that made people stand up and take notice.Dont fool me by telling me if you were a member of that indian team(even though you would surely disgrace it) you wouldnt get affected mentally?.And ending on the note of your invitation by the gas station owners, they should have been wise than to invite a snake into their warm house and and warm love.I wouldnt go to a indian party even if they begged me. Competing interests: Pakistan cricket and Pakistan fan
The possible confounding factor in the cricket puzzle... 6 April 2004
Hilary Butler, freelance journalist home Send response to journal: Re: The possible confounding factor in the cricket puzzle...	Dear Sir, Sumit Chawla says: *****I believe that the current team is free of the fear that haunted the members of 1985 team, and so can go and win anywhere. This is the measure of Ganguly's captaincy: He has imbibed the same kind of mental toughness in this team that Miandad & Co. had in the Eighties. Now, to turn around and say that Miandad wasn't tough enough is a bit silly.***** He makes a point about Ganguly's captaincy. However, he neglects to mention that Ganguly got nowhere near enough out of his team until he bulldozed the Indian Cricket Board into employing a New Zealander, John Wright, to coach the team. John Wright being an extremely knowledgeable, hard-nosed, doughty character, if ever there was one. And an opponent of Miandad.... So.... Perhaps the study lacks a key element here. Which is "What part does the Wright versus Miandad factor play?" Maybe the coach has more of an effect on the current team's performance than is currently factored as a "confounding" issue... Perhaps Miandad just wishes that Wright would go home... Hilary Butler. Competing interests: I support New Zealand Cricket
Please hush it up!!! 6 April 2004
Nitesh D Shetty, Student, BITS,Pilani,Inida 333031 Send response to journal: Re: Please hush it up!!!	I think it is vital that the BMJ having made the mistake of actually printing this paper, now does not make too much song and dance about it. It would be best for them to just hush it up and pretend that it never happened. Seriously what is the paper trying to prove? If it was supposed to be a joke,it wasn't funny and if it was meant seriously then it was the joke of all time and in either case it is time for the BMJ to reassess its purpose and think of the responsibility it carries because of the importance it has come to assume. Competing interests: None declared
Re: Flannelled fools? 6 April 2004
Robert I. Rudolph, MD. FACP, Clinical Professor of Dermatology, University of Pennsylvania , Philadelphia, PA USA 1134 Penn Avenue, Wyomissing, PA 19610 USA Send response to journal: Re: Re: Flannelled fools?	1. I don't know what "flannelled fools" means. 2. My comment about "synapses firing" referred, of course, to the writing and preparation of the article, not to the game! 3. Being American, I couldn't even begin to pass judgement concerning this most curious and revered sport. Competing interests: None declared
Re: good work 6 April 2004
Javed A. Khan, Banker - Canadian H3H 1M1 Send response to journal: Re: Re: good work	First of all I would like to congratulate Kamran Abbasi and Khalid Khan for making BMJ such an interesting journal to read by contributing their research work and by analysing the impact of Miandad's mighty six. Actually I am enjoying the response of Indian cricket fans and supporters and like to say a few words to Mr.Abbasi & Mr.Khan. Why don't you let them (Indian fans) celeberate Sehwag's triple ton and first ever Indian ODI series win against Pakistan in Pakistan. Why are you adding fuel to the fire at a time when they want to celeberate the win and forget Miandad's six? Give them a chance to enjoy it as long as it lasts. And I want to ask one question from our Indian fans and supporters. What makes you feel that Sharjah is not a NEUTRAL venue? Do you think it is the 5th Province of Pakistan? From 1984 to 1997 I have watched every single match at Sharjah cricket stadium and there were always more Indian supporters than Pakistanis. That's another point that they were subdued due to the fact that their team lost 80% of the matches they played against Pakistan. Not to mention Miandad or his SIX. Competing interests: Cricket, Music, Art, travelling, eating good food.
Past statistics in present, does not hold good in the cricket field 6 April 2004
Mangesh V Desai, Executive India,Ahmedabad Send response to journal: Re: Past statistics in present, does not hold good in the cricket field	Dr. Abbasi has indeed come out with a good analysis.But the fact is that the past statistics does not hold good on the cricket field it is the current form of any player or team that decides there win or loss.In the present series against India they could not repeat the history,but they are not be blamed for that because the current form of the Pakistani team is inferior to India and secondly going by the law of Probability such a event happening again has a very less chance. Moreover the record shows that Pakistan Is a better team in terms of the number of wins, but the fact is known to all that Pakistan could neven beat India In the world cups and the present series is a perfect example which proved and India won there first one day series In Pakistan defying the old records and statistics which said "India never won a series in Pakistan and No test match either" Mangesh Desai Competing interests: None declared
Why not Sanath Jayasuryas batting style which transformed Srilanka 6 April 2004
Mangesh V Desai, Executive Ahmedabad,India Send response to journal: Re: Why not Sanath Jayasuryas batting style which transformed Srilanka	Dr Abbasi is getting a little carried away with a very small thingh that is to do research on only one ball. As there are a number of topics in cricket more important than this to research on.like Jayasuryas batting style,Contribution of Tendulkar's score in India's Wins. Dravid as a wall, laxmans 287,Australias consistency,the past and present highest scores in one days.Australias consistency in cricket.Imrans Captancy. Competing interests: None declared
4 the people 6 April 2004
Krishnan Prasad, GP Registrar Sunderland, SR46UH Send response to journal: Re: 4 the people	I am just an average Indian male and am very proud of it. I believe in Cohabitance of all races and religions. I dont want to convert anybody into Hinduism. I dont want Hindus to rule the world. I dont think anybody who does not believe in Lord Vishnu is an infidel. and i am certainly not going to blow myself up becos it says so in the Gita, (it doesnt, by the way). I am happy to have a good Muslim neighbour or friend. This badly timed article is a selective collection of data with an unreasonable conclusion. This is the time when India is extending a friendly hand to pakistan. This entire cricket series was held to bail out the Pakistani Cricket Board from Bankruptcy. Please dont spoil it. BMJ has now become a battle ground. Its very disappointing. The Editors should look into this. Competing interests: None declared
Go ask Gawaskar 6 April 2004
Jamshed Azhar - ACA, Manager Accounts Payable GlaxoSmithKline Pakistan Limited Send response to journal: Re: Go ask Gawaskar	Lets be fair. The current Indian side is probably the best ever cricketing sides India, if not the world, has ever produced. They have shown fierce aggression and on their day can take ANY ONE apart. What remains a fact however is that India owes this attitude to their young guns. Shewag, Yuvraj, Kaif, Irfan... to name a few the new and improved Indian cricketers have something that their illustrious seniors could never seem to muster. But my Indian friends what remains a fact is that you can't change history. If any of you for a momment doubt where Miandad stands in the cricketing world, you don't need to go far just go ask the Great Gawaskar. The respect that a fellow cricketer gives to another is beyond all statistics. The Indian teams that played in that era would gladly acknowledge that Miandad is indeed one of the greatest batsman of all times. The way some of the people have mentioned Kargil or the recent victories just goes to show that you REMEMBER Miandad and you FEAR him for what he did to you. We take pride in him just the way some might worsjip Sachin. I can use statistics to tear appart Sachin as well but mates it's not worth it. Just go into some therapy and you'll all forget what he did to you. In the mean while enjoy the present. The Indian team is indeed good to have, even if they have murdered some of us. Cheers, Jamshed Azhar ACA Competing interests: None declared
Cool Down people and accept the truth 6 April 2004
Bhisham Harchadani, Medical Student AKU Karachi. Send response to journal: Re: Cool Down people and accept the truth	the writer is this article has proved by all scientific means that miandad bought a change in 1986.even before this article that six is still fresh in memories of most of the cricket fan. regarding psycological effect of sehwag's tripple century we have to wait another 10 years to see any effect. any way this article justifies all criteria to be published in a medical journal. Competing interests: None declared
Oh YES, the power of that six 7 April 2004
Adnan Zafar, Engineer Pakistan Send response to journal: Re: Oh YES, the power of that six	Its evident from the flood of 'emotional' responses, mostly from the Indians, the kind of impact that famous Miandad six had (and still has) on the phsyche of the Indians (and not just Indian cricketers). Regards, Adnan Competing interests: None declared
Lets face the truth! 7 April 2004
Wajahat Mateen, Student Lahore, Pakistan Send response to journal: Re: Lets face the truth!	I am glad that some people had the courage to accept the truth that Miandad's Six had a davastating effect over Indian's mind. A recent proof was provided by none other than Navjot Singh Sidhu, during recent Pakistan India series, when Pakistan needed a six of the last ball in Karachi's one dayer. In his post match comments, Sidhu said that "the memories of Six by Miandad had coming flooding to his mind." Now these, my dear Indian readers, are the words of one of the ex players of India who played in a decade, on which most of the analysis of this article is based upon. We all agree that present Pakistani Team is not playing that well these days; but a coach can only help them off the ground and I am sure Miandad is doing his job very diligently. We are all very pround of Miandad, and also of our team. I am pretty sure they are going to bounce back soon from this bad form of theirs. I think it is an interesting article, lets just not condemn it because it is presenting some of those facts which you dont like! Competing interests: None declared
Re: Re: Flannelled fools and Americans? 7 April 2004
Mark Struthers, GP Bedfordshire, UK Send response to journal: Re: Re: Re: Flannelled fools and Americans?	I am stumped by Professor Rudolph’s ignorance of the rich lexicon that cricket has given the English language. At least for an American, Professor Rudolph plays a straight bat. This is more than can be said for the Commander in Chief and his entourage who like to play off their own bat and are of course prone to using, if not wearing flannel. According to my dictionary, flannel is talk that is intended to deceive or to disguise a lack of knowledge or understanding. In this respect, the Commander in Chief bats on an exceedingly sticky wicket. It is time the ball hit his stumps or he was caught by the long stop. If he is bowled out in November, I will be bowled over. Baseball, the ball game regarded with inexplicable reverence by the American, is a curiously simple sport and is simply not cricket! Take up the honourable, rich and complex game of cricket, Professor Rudolph - and may you have a good innings – 100 not out perhaps! Competing interests: My practice receptionist’s name is Ruth. She’s as merry as a cricket. I keep trying to understand her. I call her ‘Babe’.
What about 'biased' umpiring? 7 April 2004
Sundar Rajan, Architect California Send response to journal: Re: What about 'biased' umpiring?	I saw a comment stating that UAE is not a neutral venue. Of course it is not. Obvious to anyone who has seen the umpiring there. Another reason I think the current Indian team is doing better than their predecessors is the neutral umpires. The umpiring in Pakistan used to be so abysmal and notorious that overseas players Mike Gatting had fist fights with the umpire over there. Why dont the authors of the article consider the 'biased' umpiring factor? I heard the story by Balwinder Singh Sandhu who talks about the umpire hinting to Sarfraz Nawaz that he was no-balling without declaring a no-ball! Competing interests: None declared
Re: Go ask Gawaskar 7 April 2004
Krishnan Prasad, GP Registrar Sunderland, SR46UH Send response to journal: Re: Re: Go ask Gawaskar	Its Gavaskar, with a v. I would very much like to see any batsman in Pakistan even come close to Sachins Record as a batsman, let alone beat it. I find it very amusing when somebody actually thinks he can tear sachin apart with statistics...but the poor chap doesnt think its worth it, even as all the bowlers all around the world (including pakistan) dread sachin and consider his wicket as the priciest. Its a bit like Osama Bin laden sitting in a cave BELIEVING that he can one day destroy the US and the UK. I wonder who this chap was who has got more centuries in both forms of the game, better average, better strike rate and better fan following than this Javed Miandad can ever hope for. I will give u a clue, his initials are SRT. So much for tearing apart.... Competing interests: None declared
Good effort by the authors to shift the limelight from India's victory at Multan. 7 April 2004
Dr Sahana Kini, Clinical Observer, Psychiatry UK Send response to journal: Re: Good effort by the authors to shift the limelight from India's victory at Multan.	First of all was the appearance of this article in the BMJ(And and no less)supposed to be a joke? If it was a joke I am sorry to say that I could'nt catch it. It is so obvious that the authors are from Pakistan and are digging the graveyard after 18 loooong years of hibernation just to change the focus from India's recent victory at Multan.It just goes to show how much 'Psychological impact' have the 'Men in Blue' caused to the Pakistanis. So much research and study is being done on Miandad's six just when Sourav and the boys are basking in the glory of India's victory at Pakistan. I wonder why nobody thought about researching on that six earlier. Let's talk about that six now.I was a 10 yr old something and Pakistan needed 4 to win from that last one delivery. Miandad knew that there was nothing to lose and only to gain if at all.And lo he hit a lofty six.Thanks to Chetan Sharma's lose delivery and incredible support from the Sharjah crowd.Here I would like to remind the authors that they are kidding if they consider Sharjah to be a neutral venue.It is not the fifth province of Pakistan but simply a venue of Muslim majority a la Pakistan. I do not deny that Pakistan was and is a good team and that 'The men in green'have been unfortunate in the current series.Better luck next time.Yes Miandad was a good batsman but giving him undue credit for that six and how that six affected India's confidence and boosted Pakistanis' is simply ridiculous.I in no way consider Miandad anywhere close to Sunny Gavaskar or the phenomenon called Sachin Tendulkar.Period. A few incidences of MI and cardiac arrests might have been reported during the Indo-Pak matches.But it is extremely silly to consider it as one of the major matters of concern so as to alert the world using the BMJ. Will anyone please research on the impact that the Bollywood Beauties have caused on the mental health and CVS health of many men both in India as well as Pakistan?That would really make an interesting copy to read in the BMJ!! Indian movies and Indian actors are more popular than Pakistani actors in Pakistan. Talk about winning Beauty Pageants.India has won the following International Beauty titles. Miss World 1966 - Rita Faria, Miss Asia Pacific 1970 - Zeenat Aman, Miss Universe 1994 - Sushmita Sen, Miss World 1994 - Aishwarya Rai, Miss World 1997 - Diana Hayden, Miss World 1999 - Yuktha Mookhey, Miss Universe 2000 - Lara Dutta, Miss World 2000 - Priyanka Chopra, Miss Asia Pacific 2000 - Diya Mirza, Mrs World 2000 - Dr Aditi Govitrikar. And if that was not enough,Madhu Sapre was 2nd runner-up at the Miss Universe contest in 1992 and Manpreet Brar was the 1st runner-up at the Miss Universe Contest in 1995. Will someone research on the impact Ash and Mads have caused on the mental health and CVS symptoms of the male population in India and the surrouning countries?Maybe I should pick-up a Stardust.Ooops sorry BMJ. Competing interests: I am an Indian and I consider Sachin Tendulkar to be 'God'
Kamran Abbassi is spot on 7 April 2004
A Choudary, Management London, W1 Send response to journal: Re: Kamran Abbassi is spot on	There is clearly a lot more to that Miandad six than most people realised. A lot of the Indian responses here have been to ridicule the article however i have been to an Indian forum where they freely admit the effect that six had... http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/328/7443/800#55302 ...its not impossible and in all likelihood very probable that that six led to Pakistan having 'the wood' over India for so long. Below are some of the responses in the above thread by Indians to a question about 'that' six... kyle: I don't know why...but that six has been etched in my memory and I think a lot of others too! It was the first time that Pak had won any kind of a trophy. crazyhorse: if u have been a long-time fan (like me), u will know what kyle is talking about. it toook years to erase the trauma of that stupid low full-toss from chetan sharma, which was whacked for six when they needed four to win yorker: That Miandad's six to win at Sharjah was really traumatic, I believe, for most of us! Till then India had a good measure of Pakistan, well ... atleast in the ODIs. After that, it was as if hell was let loose! That win defined the trait of the Pakistan team of the 80s and the 90s, particularly against India, - "capable of pulling miraculous victories from the jaws of defeat". tapss: That six had a traumatic effect on the entire Indian cricket psyche. After that Pak dominated Ind in almost every facet of the game and they seemed to have some kind of psychological hold over us. Even now after so many years,whenever any close Ind-Pak match comes up,the Miandad six memories inevitably crop up. Even the odd WC wins couldnt completely erase the Miandad effect but this series may actually be sweet payback. Its funny,bcos that match wasnt that important.But something about that six shook the entire Indian cricket fraternity. SD: Sorry ypal, there is no way that memory is going to be erased by whatever we do. It may be a revenge but that memory will remain - at least as far as I am concerned. Me and my friends who were watching it on TV just sat there looking at the screen for a minute or so with a silly smile across our face before we actually reacted which really was talking very intimately about Chetan Sharma's (I think he was the bowler) mother and sister (not sure if he has one). ...as the above shows when Indians are talking from one Indian to another they freely admit the trauma suffered by that six. Its as though Miandads blade cut through the Indian psyche leaving a deep scar that can never be fully healed. The responses on this site just go to show that K Abbassi really hit home with that article. Also he is right about the 'Miandad factor' as shown by quotes like... kyle: Though we thrashed Pak several times since then, Miandad was not really a visible factor. Maybe that's why we haven't had the satisfaction. Thats not been the case in this series. He has opened his big fat mouth time and again and it's time we shoved it down his throat! ...Miandad really is etched onto the Indian psyche. Well done Kamran and keep up the good work! Competing interests: None declared
Pure Indian - Never changes 8 April 2004
T Qayyum, Regional Manager Michigan , USA, Send response to journal: Re: Pure Indian - Never changes	Dear Editor, I would like to congratulate you for giving the valuable space to this very genuine research work of Mr Kamran Abbasi and Khalid S Khan. Applause from my side, it was a great read. To all my Indian colleagues: Pl donot take things personal or every thing negative. That 6 HURTS , and HURTS BADLY deep inside the hearts of all cricket lovers in India and NRI's around the globe. That defeat still haunts every cricket lover in India. Put BEING PURELY INDIAN you all will always deny it and try to come up with different excuses of criticizing, POOR criticizam which is non constructive , rather destructive. Enjoy the read again with couple of pounds of ice on your heads. Regards T.Qayyum Competing interests: Management in multinational envoirnment Phsycological effects of changes in work envoirnment
Re: Kamran Abbassi is spot on 8 April 2004
Krishnan Prasad, GP Registrar Sunderland, SR46UH Send response to journal: Re: Re: Kamran Abbassi is spot on	More amusement from the Pakistanis. I remember the time when Pakistan fired a missile at India from the border in one of the many wars they have lost. It went the other way and landed on its own territory. Mr.A.Choudry, has given a link to an 'Indian' forum (where all "Indian" writers have mysteriously disguised their names to yorker and crazyhorse for some unknown reason). Guess where the link takes us?. try it out guys. We now have this pakistani guy telling us where to get our opinions from..hilarious. Keep amusing us,mate. You are great at that. Competing interests: None declared
Re: Kamran Abbassi is spot on 8 April 2004
Raaed M. Khan, Student Austin, TX Send response to journal: Re: Re: Kamran Abbassi is spot on	The whole indian response is just to cover up their anger and frustration. That their team coulnd't prevent a 6 on the last ball not only destroyed the psyche of the indian team, but also of a lot of indians. Even today, just mentioning Miandad's six makes indians nervous. I was watching the first odi of the Pakistan india series, and when Moin couldn't hit a 6 of the last ball, the Indians were jubilant. More so not because they had won, but they had prevented a 6 on the last ball. What an achievment (clap! clap! clap!) This fact only shows how deep that 6 scarred the indians. I overheard an indian saying "we took the revenge for that 6." Fairly early for you to avenge your humiliation I would say. Pakistani's will never forget that 6, but the matter of fact is, neither will the indians. Competing interests: None declared
Re: Oh YES, the power of that magnificient six 8 April 2004
Javed A. Khan, Banker Canada H3H 1M1 Send response to journal: Re: Re: Oh YES, the power of that magnificient six	A SIXER ON THE LAST BALL to win a cricket match is like a nightmare for the losers or may be a dream, a fairy tale or the climax of an Indian movie? Or is it something more than that? Javed Miandad may not have thought about anything more than winning the match when he dispatched Chetan Sharma's full toss over the ropes for a six. Today, almost 18 years later people are still discussing about his six and that too not in a sports magazine but here at this forum at the B.M.J. Thank you once again Kamran & Khalid. It is true that Miandad shattered the morale of the Indian cricket team and Indian supporters with his six, that is why the Indian team kept loosing series after series not only in Sharjah (which some of our Indian friends call it as 'A not so neutral venue') but also in India. After losing at Sharjah India lost a series at home and that too 5-1. It is worth mentioning about the match at Eden Gardens, Kalkota, were 100,000 spectators were blowing their trumpets and chanting victory songs and thousands of Indian supporters distributing free sweets on the streets to celebrate a premature Indian win, assuming it would be a 'Mission Impossible' for Pakistan to score 70 runs in 6 overs. But Saleem Malik hammered 38 runs in just 2 overs, it was Kapil Dev and Maninder Singh who were at the receiving end. Thanks to the dreaded "Miandad Factor" which worked both ways: Making Pakistani team believe that they can win under any situation against Indian. And making the Indian team believe that no matter how much they score, the Pakistani team can make it. I must thank the Pakistani players for losing that highest scoring ODI at Karachi last month. It would have been great for Pakistani supporters if they had won that match. But, it would have been another big dent in the Indian cricket team's psyche and they would have never been able to recover from that shock and that would have been a real loss for cricket. And that would have kept the Indians away from Pakistan for another 14 years. Now, that they have won this series for the first time ever, it is good for cricket in the sub-continent. They stopped coming to Sharjah because of constantly losing against Pakistan after that great six of Miandad. I have a feeling that, the more the Pakistanis praise about Miandad's six the more people fume on the other side of the fence. Because, they know that it is impossible for any Indian player to achieve this feat of hitting a six on the last ball and to win the match. So they could only dream about it or try to make their dreams come true by making a movie called Lagaan. It seems that the Indian actor was inspired by Miandad's six, so he went on to hit a six on the last ball to translate the Indian dreams. Talking about Sharjah that it is not a neutral venue, Indians are trying to justify their defeats in Sharjah by blaming the international umpires officiating at Sharjah. I won't be surprised if Indians say Steve Bucknor is originally from Baluchistan, Pakistan. They forget their own sub-standard umpires like, Jayaprakash. Indian players are famous for making vociferous and bogus appeals on every single ball and Jayaprakash’s finger goes up with them without even thinking for a moment. So, no wonder Kumble was able to achieve 10 wickets in one innings at Delhi with those 3 lbw and dubious caught behind decisions given by Jayaprakash. Even during the old days there was this famous duo of Joshi and Ganguly, Indian umpires of the sixties. One example: M.L. Jaisimha the Indian opener was run out at 99 in the second test at Kanpur in 1962 and umpire Ganguly declared him not out when he was 2 meters short of the crease. It was Jaisimha who left the ground saying he was out. Not only Jaisimha, there were sporty players like; Mansour Ali Khan Pataudi, Gundapa Vishwanath, Majid Khan, Zaheer Abbass and Asif Iqbal who used to walk out of the ground without looking at the umpire after edging the ball to the keeper or in to the hands of the slip fielders. We need honest and sporty players like them and not just umpires. Finally, for the Clinical Observer Psychiatrist who is going out of context and bragging about Indian beauties, Miss World, Miss Universe etc., my request for him is: 'whether they are really beautiful or they are more popular or whatever they have done to his mind, PLEASE keep the so-called beauties out of cricket. We have seen enough of that Bollywood cortical clutter at Sharjah stadium at the courtesy of Mr. Bukhatir. What a shame the Clinical Observer believes that Sharjah is not a neutral venue because it is “simply a venue of Muslim majority a la Pakistan”. Quelle Blague, may I laugh? If a purblind nocturnal mouse sees not the sunlight it is not the later to be blamed. The Observer should go to Sharjah and see for himself who is in majority and what kind of atmosphere is there at the stadium. I simply wish if the crowd - minus the Bollywood clutter - everywhere is the same as it is in Sharjah. Competing interests: None declared
Too much Hate Mongering 8 April 2004
Sheik Muhammad Yasir, Electrial Engineer Lahore, Pakistan Send response to journal: Re: Too much Hate Mongering	I have just read through many of the hostile messages posted on this forum. I too am an avid cricket fan and supporter of Pakistan, but i would rather not indulge in such hate mongering. No doubt i was jubilant when Pakistan won that match because of the Miandad six. But no way, as an educated person will i believe that i triggered some sort of panic attack or depression. The very idea is ludicrous. Sometimes pakistan is better, and sometimes India is. Its a game, a great game, but just a game. One can only speculate that Mr Kamran threw his weight around to get this article published. My knowledge of second year mathematical statistics alone is enough to disprove this so called "theory" . For the record Kamran, you just cannot go about including factors that suit your theory and excluding ones that dont. That method only works when you are trying to fake a first year engineering lab report. I am not sure If this Mr Kamran is a Pakistani, but if he is, I am ashamed that he is my countryman That six gave us victory, sometimes shoaib does and sometimes inzamam hits about 5 of those sixes to give us victory. I just hope that Pakistan won on the basis of its own talent, cos that is exactly what India is doing now. It would also be great if we didnt get anymore cricket articles here, there are websites for that. This is a request by me to all my indian and pakistani brothers. Enjoy victory, but at least give credit to the players who made the win possible Competing interests: None declared
Excusez-moi Monsieur Javed Khan 9 April 2004
Dr Sahana (MBBS, FAGE) Kini, Clinical Observer Psychiatry UK Send response to journal: Re: Excusez-moi Monsieur Javed Khan	This one is for Mr Khan who thinks I am a guy.It is sad that he cannot even make out that Sahana is a female's name. It is further sad to know that a banker knows better than a doctor like me so as what is right and what is wrong to be published in the BMJ. And now regarding the deviation of the topic from cricket to beauty.Well my reply for that is that if Mr Khan and Mr Kamran could deviate from Medicine and bring in cricket into BMJ,then I could very well deviate from cricket and get into the results of Indian beauties' influence on the minds of many a men. Now Monsieur Khan,puhlease do not brag in French.Je sais tres bien que vous habitez au Canada.Mais j'ai etudie Francais pour cinq ans.Merci Monsieur,je ne veux pas vous reponder. (I very well know that you live in Canada.But I have studied French for 5 years.Thank you Sir,I do not wish to reply) Everyone should take a lesson or two from Mr Sheikh Muhammad Yasir who does not believe in mud slinging.I think he is brilliant and tres mature.I do not wish to retaliate any further on this topic so as to maintain peace and to maintain the dignity of the BMJ. Competing interests: None declared
Time Wasting Activities 9 April 2004
Jalil Ahmed, medical student university of manchester Send response to journal: Re: Time Wasting Activities	It's great to know that our seniors enjoy time wasting activities as much as we do. There is still hope for us. Competing interests: None declared
Re: Too much Hate Mongering 9 April 2004
Deepankar Roy, PhD Student University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90033 Send response to journal: Re: Re: Too much Hate Mongering	Hey Yasir, That was a really wonderful and one of the very very few sensible and well reasoned responses I saw in a couple of days. This research, even it is of any significance, does not deserve a place in the BMJ and thats what should be enough for its disqualification. However, this has been used by many in Pakistan and some in India as a mud-slinging forum. If you read some of the responses, you would feel outright ashamed that such is the low level of thinking where a match is not only seen as an "India-Pakistan pandora's box" factor, but is used also to potentiate a lost cause of engaging into needless animosity. And pardon me if I am wrong, but most of the disillusioned responses have come from educated Pakistani citizens, which have been countered and fought in good and shamefully bad words by some Indians too, which pains me even more because this just negates the good work done by the Indo-Pak cricket series in terms of promoting Cricket and friendliness. It is as if the people have totally forgotten to address the basic issue of addressing the contents, relevance and analysis of the article. Instead they have just chosen to engage themselves in street-fighting. Deplorable behaviour really!! In a way, the authors have scored a point in making this the most popular(for good and/or bad reasons)I personally find it a disgusting article, not because I am an Indian and a supported of Indian team, but purely because I think, and I hope I have a few heads here who would agree, that this article is in the wrong journal, discusses a "non-existent" factor, tries to correlate it with future results, and uses frivolous data and analysis tools. Their suggestion is clearly not derived from the graph, which shows that Pakistan had infact won a few ODIs before that and the Test Match worm too is flat for a long time. And grading each result with a +1 gives Pakistan line in the graph a cumulative advantage which gives the false impression of a rising graph. Its time we apply our minds and see to it that no junk gets published in a scientific journal of repute, and if it does, then it gets a proper showdown from responsible readers. Thank you for bringing out the right thing. Deepankar Competing interests: None declared
Re: Re: Oh YES, the power of that magnificient six 9 April 2004
Abu Bakr Farooq, none Rawalpindi, 46000. Send response to journal: Re: Re: Re: Oh YES, the power of that magnificient six	I agree with Javed A. Khan that it’s the 'Miandad-Six-Factor' that made Indians sleepless. Talking about that six today and we can see how the response is from Indian side. So I really congratulate the authors for putting up good work. The responses show the result that how much the Indian Psyche is affected by that SIX. People talking about Sehwag's Ton, well after Lahore's show at second test, where's that TON gone?? Where's that PATHAN gone?? A new-comer in the shape of Umer GUL, destroyed the "Star Studded Batting Line Up " within a single session... Be fair, take it as a game. … But Miandad factor remains there... Competing interests: None declared
Kamran Abbassi is spot on 9 April 2004
A Choudary, Management London, W1 Send response to journal: Re: Kamran Abbassi is spot on	For the editor, i would like to resubmit my response as i pasted the WRONG link in my original one. Please either change the link in the original response or post this response and delete the previous one. Thak You There is clearly a lot more to that Miandad six than most people realised. A lot of the Indian responses here have been to ridicule the article however i have been to an Indian forum where they freely admit the effect that six had... http://www.sportnetwork.net/boards/read/s119.php?f=118&i=102494&t=102494&sid=119#reply_102494 ...its not impossible and in all likelihood very probable that that six led to Pakistan having 'the wood' over India for so long. Below are some of the responses in the above thread by Indians to a question about 'that' six... kyle: I don't know why...but that six has been etched in my memory and I think a lot of others too! It was the first time that Pak had won any kind of a trophy. crazyhorse: if u have been a long-time fan (like me), u will know what kyle is talking about. it toook years to erase the trauma of that stupid low full-toss from chetan sharma, which was whacked for six when they needed four to win yorker: That Miandad's six to win at Sharjah was really traumatic, I believe, for most of us! Till then India had a good measure of Pakistan, well ... atleast in the ODIs. After that, it was as if hell was let loose! That win defined the trait of the Pakistan team of the 80s and the 90s, particularly against India, - "capable of pulling miraculous victories from the jaws of defeat". tapss: That six had a traumatic effect on the entire Indian cricket psyche. After that Pak dominated Ind in almost every facet of the game and they seemed to have some kind of psychological hold over us. Even now after so many years,whenever any close Ind-Pak match comes up,the Miandad six memories inevitably crop up. Even the odd WC wins couldnt completely erase the Miandad effect but this series may actually be sweet payback. Its funny,bcos that match wasnt that important.But something about that six shook the entire Indian cricket fraternity. SD: Sorry ypal, there is no way that memory is going to be erased by whatever we do. It may be a revenge but that memory will remain - at least as far as I am concerned. Me and my friends who were watching it on TV just sat there looking at the screen for a minute or so with a silly smile across our face before we actually reacted which really was talking very intimately about Chetan Sharma's (I think he was the bowler) mother and sister (not sure if he has one). ...as the above shows when Indians are talking from one Indian to another they freely admit the trauma suffered by that six. Its as though Miandads blade cut through the Indian psyche leaving a deep scar that can never be fully healed. The responses on this site just go to show that K Abbassi really hit home with that article. Also he is right about the 'Miandad factor' as shown by quotes like... kyle: Though we thrashed Pak several times since then, Miandad was not really a visible factor. Maybe that's why we haven't had the satisfaction. Thats not been the case in this series. He has opened his big fat mouth time and again and it's time we shoved it down his throat! ...Miandad really is etched onto the Indian psyche. Well done Kamran and keep up the good work! Competing interests: None declared
What a silly article? 9 April 2004
Umesh Prabhu, Consultant Paediatrician Fairfield Hospital, Bury BL9 7TA Send response to journal: Re: What a silly article?	I am rather disappointed to read the article and various rapid responses to this silly article. I am disappointed to read this article in the BMJ and that too by someone of Kamran Abbasi's calibre. This article, is of no relevance at all to vast majority of our members. If this article is trying to prove that that there is 'Equal Opportunity' in the BMJ then this is a foolish way to achieve that credibility. I sincerely hope that editorial board will take their responsibility seriously and let us not have Indo-Pack politics take over our true professionalism. Competing interests: None declared
PLEASE,IT WAS JUST ONE SIX..... WHAT ABOUT SEHWAG'S TRIPLE TON AND THE THUNDEROUS INNINGS OF SACHIN? 10 April 2004
Abhishek Vootukuru, Aerospace Enigneering Student Embry Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, FL Send response to journal: Re: PLEASE,IT WAS JUST ONE SIX..... WHAT ABOUT SEHWAG'S TRIPLE TON AND THE THUNDEROUS INNINGS OF SACHIN?	If one is to say that the matchwinning six from Miandad has struck the Indian team psychologically, then the Pakistani team should be brain- dead by now from Sachin's scintillating innings in the World Cup and Sehwag's Triple Ton in the Ist Test. One six doesn't terrify a team that has not been even evolved while Miandad smashed the bad full toss. Competing interests: None declared
Re: Good effort by the authors to shift the limelight from India's victory at Multan. 10 April 2004
Farooq Ali, student J4X 1T2 Send response to journal: Re: Re: Good effort by the authors to shift the limelight from India's victory at Multan.	In response to Dr. Sahana's question which I am quoting here: "First of all was the appearance of this article in the BMJ(And and no less)supposed to be a joke? If it was a joke I am sorry to say that I could'nt catch it." Dr. Sahana, it wasn't a JOKE, its a reality - a SIXER on the last ball and yes it went over your head thats why you couldn't catch it and you never will. And you are not alone in this game, there are more than a billion people who haven't been able to catch it yet, although they have been trying hard for the last 18 years and wondering how, when and why? And why can't we do the same? Miandad's 'fear factor reminds me of Dr. Yoda's comments; "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to frustration, frustration leads to suffering". And 18 years of suffering is a long time, rite? Competing interests: None declared
GET BACK TO WORK .. all of you !!! 11 April 2004
Jawad Kayani, Masters student Cass business school, London, ALL OF YOU Send response to journal: Re: GET BACK TO WORK .. all of you !!!	Dear all, My fellow asians in UK, Canada and US. I do not pay taxes to the Govt so you all can indulge in pathetic and pointless discussions! I am probably half your age but for some reason (as much a cricket fan i am and i loved that miandad six), this discussion is POINTLESS. some Indians, with their ill-informed stats, and some Pakistanis with their goodwill messages, have all converged to one point in these replies.... that there is NO POINT to this frikkin ARTICLE. medics stick with bloody medicine ... and for the love of God not in BMJ ... leave it for the statisticians at wisden cricinfo. How about u medics find a damn cure for AIDS dammit !!! Now get back to work... all of you (and myself). Competing interests: None declared
lack of power in the six 12 April 2004
anil joshi, Senior house officer in ENT peterborough, pe1 1un Send response to journal: Re: lack of power in the six	The article "India versus Pakistan and the power of a six: an analysis of cricket results BMJ 2004; 328: 800" was quite an interesting one. The very title made people sit up and read it. However there are quite a few glaring parameters which the authors have failed to observe. The result shows a major shift in success towards pakistan since 1986. The authors also believed that toss, venue and winning the toss were not associated with outcome and have conceded that there are no explanation to this major change in success. They hence account only the historic six in 1986 to be the sole reason for the shift. What they have missed out is the fact that matches in sharjah started only in mid-eighties and both teams have played majority of matches there till around mid-nineties. These matches were played under dubious circumstances which were finally curtailed by the government of india. The results,if you then look at them taking these matches out is totally different. To a certain extent it is ever skewed. This can be clearly noted by the fact that since 1986 both the teams have met each other in world cup matches four times and its been four-nil in indias favour. No one can ever argue the fact that world cup matches are played under highest pressure. Also, both the nations played in a neutral venue like Toronto for a couple of years when the results were shared almost equally. Coming to the psychological factor, players on either sides are too professional, talented and level headed to let a single shot hit years or even decades back to affect their mind and game. can the authors remove the matches played in sharjah and involve all the other parameters before coming to a conclusion? they can then clearly see that its just a matter of another international game played by professional cricketers which is either won or lost.the writing is on the wall and the "six has clearly lost its power"!! Competing interests: None declared
Too much Hate Mongering - Lets put our hearts together 12 April 2004
Sumita Singh, Post Graduate Research Student H7T 2J7 Send response to journal: Re: Too much Hate Mongering - Lets put our hearts together	I am doing my post graduate research in Pharmacology and like most of my friends I read BMJ, Nature and The Lancet etc. For me it was a nice change to see people from the sub-continent debating on cricket. Before the editorial board of BMJ says; "like all good things must come to an end" let me say a few good things about our so-called enemies or rivals. Unlike my friend "The Clinical Observer" I remained a silent observer so far but, now I would like to say a few words for those Indian friends of mine who have not been able to witness Pakistani hospitality. Originally from India, I grew up in England and now living in North America, I have a lot of Pakistani friends. One of my friends insisted that I must accompany her to Pakistan to witness Basant (kite festival) in Lahore this year. I was excited and at the sametime reluctant about so many things. Eventually when I was there in Pakistan, I was overwhelmed by the hospitality shown by not only my friend's family and her relatives, but wherever I went and whenever I was introduced by my friend to anyone, even to the shopkeepers in general that, I am from India and visiting Pakistan for the first time, there was a sudden rush of emotions, a glow on their face, their eyes shine, they smile and welcomed me like I am a VIP. They asked so many questions about how I feel being in Pakistan and how I am being treated etc? This extremely kind hospitality was extended to me not only in Lahore, but also in Karachi, Peshawar and Islamabad too. My friend’s friends were inviting us for dinners and parties and we had to refuse a few of them because of our tight schedule. What I have seen there and how I felt about being there I must tell you that I have never been treated like this in any country ever in my life, not even in my own country India. Talking about beauty and beauty queens, Pakistani girls are so beautiful, so charming and so elegant, yet they are very modest about their appearance. Apart from religion, their cultural and traditional values do not permit them to compete for beauty contests. Even when I had a long discussion with some post graduate female students, there seems to be no dreams or no desire in them for competing in such events. They do like Indian actresses and talk about them, but they don't idolize them. I never used to believe when my father used to say that Lahore used to be the fashion city of the sub-continent, but after visiting Lahore, I think he is right. And the proverbial "Lahore, Lahore hai" is also very right. It is a fabulous place and people are so lively and warm, the city is so vibrant and colorful that its hard to describe in words. And just for the record, girls in Lahore, Karachi and even in Peshawar are far better looking than our own Indian girls and men in general are very handsome too - take it with a SMILE :-) It is a fact. The current cricket series between the two countries have certainly opened the borders for Indians to visit. Indians have won the one day series but Pakistanis have won the hearts of many Indians. Competing interests: None declared
Re: 4 the people 15 April 2004
Omer Elmagboul, Senior Manager, Strategic Ventures 48 Chiswell Street, London EC1Y 4XX Send response to journal: Re: Re: 4 the people	"I am just an average Indian male and am very proud of it. I believe in Cohabitance of all races and religions. I dont want to convert anybody into Hinduism. I dont want Hindus to rule the world. I dont think anybody who does not believe in Lord Vishnu is an infidel. and i am certainly not going to blow myself up becos it says so in the Gita, (it doesnt, by the way). I am happy to have a good Muslim neighbour or friend. " The above displays such passive-aggressive behaviour, I could not help but respond. If this response typifies the reaction of an allegedly educated person, who happens to be a Hindu, I fear for the relations between us lesser mortals who find ourselves on the so-called hindu-muslim divide. To allay fears, and hopefully broaden some horizons (I know its a defeatist task) none of the above holds true about the islamic faith. If the faith has been hijacked by a frothing rabid minority, does not represent a structural shift in Islamic tenets. No true muslim has the right to take lives, call another person an infidel, or have expansionary views, with the caveat that it is within his duites to propogate Islam using persuasive dialogue. It would be easy for me to turn this into a slanging match and suggest that the RSS represent true Hindu idealogy, and that the Manu Smriti (which lies highest in the hierachy of prescriptive Hinduism today unfortunately, and NOT the Bhagvad Gita)which demeans the status of women to levels unmentionable, is what true Hinduism is. However, I refrain, and choose to let people make informed decisions, if they wish. Insinuating a hierachy of religions, and claiming to be at the top of that hierarchy has a hollow ring, whereever that may emanate from. Finally, being an Indian Muslim, I pray that the Indian team wraps up the series and claims a historic win in the next two days. I would like to applaud Saurav Ganguly's dignified acceptance of the one day trophy at the presentation ceremony and hope that we can all take something away from it. As for Miandad's six, and all the palaver sparked by the article in the BMJ (I remember sinking to the ground and feeling completely deflated at that time),it was so long ago....doesn't have a bearing on today's cricket matches between India and Pakistan. All it does is raise poignant memories, whilst watching Miandad eat some humble pie, which redresses the balance and is belated payback for his arrogant posturing following THAT match in Sharjah. Competing interests: Not suffering flag waving, chest beating jingoistic drivel.....
Re: Re: 4 the people 19 April 2004
Krishnan Prasad, GP Registrar Sunderland, SR46UH Send response to journal: Re: Re: Re: 4 the people	Let me get one thing straight. Passive aggression is what the article is all about. If somebody thinks that such acts will be tolerated by passive submission, they are in for a rude surprise. I donot think that you know the first thing about Hinduism or Hindutva. We do NOT follow manusmriti. Manusmriti which was written by manu, has always been totally and completely rejected by the Hindus ages ago. The manuscript was literally burned and its concepts were ejected from all aspects of Hinduism. Bhagwad Gita is what all Hindus follow with the teachings from the epics like ramayana and mahabharata. And I dont think any Muslim has the right to talk about Womens right. You being an Indian muslim might think that there exists such a thing as womens rights, but thats only because the Hindus give it to you in a platter in India. Go to saudi arabia, and afghansitan where women (even non muslims) have to cover up from head to heels in black. Even in pakistan, where muslim women are forced to marry the Quran, is no exception to blatant violations of Human rights. Why dont you talk about the Honour Killings that happen in the Muslim families in U.K. Educated fundamentalism is what Islam has turned into. You might say that Islam is hijacked by a minoriity, but the very fact that the majority muslims let them do it, makes them equally guilty. Competing interests: None declared
Laddishness at the BMJ 24 April 2004
ALEX SCOTT-SAMUEL, SENIOR LECTURER IN PUBLIC HEALTH, UNIVERSITY OF LIVERPOOL Department of Public Health, University of Liverpool, Liverpool, L69 3GB Send response to journal: Re: Laddishness at the BMJ	As a BMJ reeder for over 30 years, I was appalled to see this paper which, as others have pointed out, is both irrelevant to the BMJ and also appears at the expense of real, valid medical research which the BMJ is forced to reject because of pressure on space. What the publication of this paper represents to me is that 'laddishness' – the assertive display of childish forms of patriarchal behaviour, found equally in the pub and the Cabinet room – has now infected the editorial offices of the BMJ. I believe it is essential that the editor of the BMJ responds personally to this deplorable lapse in editorial standards. Competing interests: None declared
Re: 4 the people 5 May 2004
Javed A. Khan, Banker H3H 1M1 Send response to journal: Re: Re: 4 the people	I knew it, I knew it, I knew it from the outset that this debate is going to end up in this 'disgustipatingly' pathetic fashion. I hope this is the end of it. IF not, I suggest the editors to put a lid on this topic to stop this flooding of hate and repugnance against Hindus and Muslims. Competing interests: None declared
BMJ and cricket? 6 May 2004
Nayanika Barat, Registrar, Psychiatry Toowoomba Base Hospital, Toowoomba ,Australia Send response to journal: Re: BMJ and cricket?	A few thoughts, even if late. I expect the BMJ to publish my article on the effect of the Ashes on Anglo -Saxon Health. If not, why not? Just because Australia wins? It really is a sick joke to talk about cricket in the context of South Asian health, considering how ill South Asians are. The topic of the article might have a place in a sports psychology journal. However, the methodology is so obviously flawed-what about all the confounding factors? What about the "sponsors"-all the fixers of the matches;how many of the matches were played in good faith, do we even know? I like watching cricket as much as the next person maybe more, but I really have to question the purpose of this article being in the BMJ. I also never want to hear another word about work practices in the Antipodes, given that my colleagues in the UK seem to have plenty of time on their hands. Competing interests: None declared
Miandad's six: a metaphor for chaos and complexity. 8 May 2004
Vivian S Rambihar, Cardiologist The Medical ArtsBuilding. #3302, 3000 Lawrence E, Toronto, M1P 2V1 Send response to journal: Re: Miandad's six: a metaphor for chaos and complexity.	Miandad’s six (1) is a metaphor that takes us beyond a boundary to a new thinking. It is similar to the Butterfly metaphor of chaos and complexity science, “A butterfly flapping its wings in Texas causes a tornado in Texas.” This six caused ripples across time and space. CLR James, whose words “What do they know of cricket who only cricket know?” were paraphrased in the opening sentence of the article, argued in his book “Beyond a Boundary” that cricket is an art whose structure allows variety, and it relates to history and society. Cricket is a game of complexity with nonlinear and dynamic interactions of the weather, ground conditions, selection policies, etc, (which were mentioned by the authors), and many other factors determining outcomes. In such systems, chaos rears its head, making plausible the hypothesis mentioned by the authors that a single shot had an enduring influence. Publication of this article has been dismissed by some as “not cricket,” yet it may have the same effect as Miandad’s six in creating change, bringing to the attention of readers concepts of simplicity and complexity which underlie all of medicine and health, and all of life itself. It may thus still become a landmark article, which may bowl us over, going beyond a boundary to new concepts. Such concepts have been previously described with relation to the South Asian community, with chaos and complexity used as a tool for change in health promotion (2,3) and cricket used as a tool for change in health, with cricket scores and history used to stimulate interest at a South Asian Heart Health Fair in Toronto in 1995 (3). Thus the idea of Miandad’s six leading to change is not as far fetched as it may sound. We should not let this opportunity slip to explore such ideas further. References: 1. Abbasi K, Khan KS. India versus Pakistan and the power of a six: an analysis of cricket results. BMJ 2004;328:800. 2. Rambihar VS. Using complexity science in community health promotion: novel perspectives and a tool for change in Complexity and Healthcare Organization, (Ed. Kernick D). Oxford: Radcliffe Medical Press, 2004. 3. Rambihar VS. South Asian Heart: Preventing heart disease: from the heart to the edge of the diaspora: from the heart to the edge of chaos. Toronto: Vashna Publications, 1996 and 2002. Competing interests: Nil
Cricket and peace Zindabad 18 June 2004
Vidhu Mayor, UK NHS General Practitioner Birmingham B128HE Send response to journal: Re: Cricket and peace Zindabad	This is, quite simply, the best paper that has ever been published in the BMJ! Anyone who sees fit to criticise it has a really worrying deficiency, namely, not having the remotest hint of a sense of humour. I am completely ashamed that the vast majority of critical respondents are fellow Indians. Evidently, the dark age of BJP-type Hindu extremist government in India has left its hate-fuelling scars on, even, Indians living abroad! Thankfully, that regime has now been ejected by the processes of democracy in India (will the USA and UK please follow suit with Bush and Blair?. The true winners of the recent test series was not the Indian team but the people of Pakistan for the wonderful hospitality, warmth and love extended to the Indian team and their fans. So, lets start talking about the two countries trading with each other, having joint leagues for cricket and hockey at club level and closer ties in the field of medical science (to name but a few). My final broadside is aimed at those 'doctors'(thankfully, for me, not all Indians) who have attempted to criticise the science in this article - please get a life! How more ridiculously pompous and inanely self-important can we get - no wonder so many patients despise us. Viva Dravid, Inzamam, Sehwag et al. Well done the BMJ! Competing interests: 1) I am a lifelong fan of Indian cricket 2) By religion, I am a Arya Samaj Hindu (our movement's key belief is monotheism (that there is only one god) who is formless (cannot be represented by idols) and unchangeable (cannot take human or animal form).
We should have more articles like this 20 June 2004
Rajarshi Raha, Medical SHO Lister Hospital, SG1 4AB Send response to journal: Re: We should have more articles like this	Drs. Abbasi and Khan have started a brilliant trend. We can study the phenomenal rise of Indian cricket under Sourav Ganguly and how this has been acheived.We could also try to assess the effects of this on the mental and physical well being and pride of the Indian nation. Now we have the confidence that an internationally famous journal like the BMJ could publish it. Thank you BMJ and Drs. Abbasi and Khan. Competing interests: None declared
Lighten Up 24 June 2004
Heather C. Collier, Student Student T6E 2B9 Send response to journal: Re: Lighten Up	The article, while technically accurate, was obviously an April Fools Day joke. Take a deep breath folks and learn to laugh a bit. Competing interests: None declared