Rapid Responses to:
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Rapid Responses: Rapid Responses published:
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Select for forty years.
- Rupert Gude (11 January 2000)
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Open Point system may help decrease bias
- S Ravi (14 January 2000)
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Medical schools must stop the biased system of selecting applicants
- Camilla Bhakri (24 January 2000)
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Difficulties with anonymous shortlisting
- B Thalayasingam (1 February 2000)
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Rupert Gude, General Practitioner Abbey Surgery, Tavistock Devon
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Dear Sir, The proposition that a selection system for medical students should be based solely on A level grades must not pass unchallenged. Some things are easy to measure and success after 3 years at medical school must be one of the simplest and confirms the validity of A level selection in the short term. Although it is the admissions tutors responsibility to ensure a low fall out rate, and it may be on this that their own success is measured; surely we are selecting young people not to be just successful medical students but to be successful doctors for the next 40 years who will meet the needs of their patients. Since about half of all medical graduates enter General Practice the first place to look is to select attributes that are useful in that discipline.Maybe we need to select people who can adapt to the wise advice of Dr Bleber in his letter in this weeks issue (page 117).Can we select students who have a desire to travel so that our profession is enriched by new ideas but who have a strong homing instinct so that they do not emigrate and thus abscond with their knowledge. Let us not be blinded into thinking that those with the most glittering A level results will necessarily make the best doctors Yours sincerely Rupert Gude. |
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S Ravi, consultant surgeon, Blackpool Victoria Hospital
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I read the above article with interest because my daughter is currently going through the process despite my advice to her suggesting computer programming and a move to the USA after qualification. She has been shortlisted at all places she applied. The best she has come up with is being in the pool at Cambridge. She has 8 A* AND 2 A's in GCSE. She is good at music with grade 8 in singing, piano and violin. She has won several prizes in music festivals and is well known locally. She is in the tennis club. I am informed that the school has given her excellent reports. She was praised at interviews for having achieved so much and then was rejected everywhere. As a surgical Tutor I use a system of points for shortlisting and allocate points to the panel during interviews. No one talks about the performance of a candidate during the interview process. The total points allocated to the 5 strong consultant team adds up to 100 points. At the end of the interview the decision is made by adding the points and appointing the top scorers. No ifs and buts are tolerated. We have always had an excellent team |
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Camilla Bhakri
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Editor, I read with interest the article by Lumb et al [1] which I came across quite by chance. I thought your readership may be interested in the views of a prospective medical student. At school we are constantly told that gaining a place at medical school is highly competitive. It appears that not only does one have to be "superhuman" with 3A grades at A level, Grade 8 on two instruments, play rugby for the county etc.... but one also has to have a European sounding name. I find this deeply disconcerting. I assume that shortlisting of candidates and interviews are largely carried out by medical doctors - who profess to have high levels of integrity and moral standards. I sincerely hope that these same doctors do not discriminate against patients in the same way that they appear to discriminate against some applicants to medical school. I would like to believe that patients are treated according to their medical needs and not their ethnic origin. I wonder how much lower public confidence in the profession would become if medical schools were to be publicly branded "institutionally racist" just as the Metropolitan Police recently has been? Surely, medical schools do not want quotas imposed on them to select a certain number of students from ethnic minorities, as is now the case with the Metropolitan Police Force? Medical schools must stop the biased system of selecting applicants and allow many young people to achieve their ambitions without the added obstacle of outdated prejudices. 1 Lumb AB, Vail A. Difficulties with anonymous shortlisting of medical school applications and its effects on candidates with non- European names: prospective cohort study. BMJ 2000, 320:82-5 (8 January) Camilla Bhakri (A level student, age 15)
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B Thalayasingam, Locum Consultant Paediatrician S. Tyneside District Hospital, South Shields
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I read with interest the findings of Andrew B. Lumb and Andy Vail and their difficulty with anonymous short listing of Medical School applications. (1)It is not surprising, as I believe there is no deliberate discrimination on the part of admission tutors. The ethnic minority applicants would be interested to see research done on the scoring system where a hefty 6 points is allocated to non-academic activities during the shortlisting process. There is a perception that the ethnic minority students do not score well on non-academic activities. It also raises the debate whether it is important for a doctor to be a gifted rugby player or netball player, which are regarded as non-academic activities. Most patients would prefer to be treated by a talented and kindhearted doctor rather than a gifted athlete who is also a doctor. It is also sad that the interview system iis undervalued and abolished for candidates who score well during the short listing process. The interviews are still held for 11 year old children before admission to grammar school and no doctor will get appointed to any post without an interview during his or her long career. Mr. J.A. Dukes (The Times, letters, 17th December 1999) points out the advantages of proper interview in the full assessment of candidates. If the interview system is time-consuming and expensive one should consider the American Standard Assessment tests or the American Medical School Admission tests, which could be held in different centres for which all the Universities and Medical Schools could pool the resources. The candidates need not travel up and down the country wasting their valuable time during the pre-examination period for the medical school interviews. (1) Andrew B. Lumb, Andy Vail. Difficulties with anonymous short listing of medical school applications and its effects on candidates with non-European names: Prospective Cohort Study. BMJ, 2000; 320: 82-85 |
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